Mamuli No. 23
Title
Mamuli No. 23
extracted text
THJDYT,F FHF FMDC V[JKJL W[JDTKC=
1
saidan iwyeba samSoblos siyvaruli?!
1! ~@#`7
@__^ OKBC
BFYDFHB
VHFDFK F[FK OTKC=
rogor momnatrebia Tovli... axla fanjarasTan
vdgavar da TeTri fantelebis cekvas vucqer.
mgonia, rom nacrisfer cas momwydari fifqebi
mxolod dabla daSvebisas TeTrdebian.
mjera, rom TiToeul fifqs bgerebi moaqvs
cidan da Sens mexsierebaSi cdilob, rom axunZlo es bgerebi...
wlevandel pirvelfifqobaze me jilda daTuaSvili gamaxsenda... misi simReriT...
`Tovli mosula am diliT,
raRac axali iwyeba,
ara yofila advili,
fiqrebTan marto darCena~.
gareT isev Tovs... Tvalsawieri fiqrebiTa
da fafuki TovliT dafarula, Sio mRvimelis
sityvebic maxsendeba, `TeTr sabnis qveS gayinuli aremare daRvremila~.
mec moviwyine! ras ar gaviRebdi, ras ar gavcemdi, rom axla niu jersis ki ara, Cemi qveynis, Cemi dedaTbilisis daTovlil saxlebs
vxedavde, TeTrad daxatul rusTavelis gamzirs, mxrebdaTovlil gorgasals, bambiT morTul mTawmindas... da qud-kaSneTi SefuTnul
qarTul saxeebs...
Cemi Tbilisi yvelaze lamazi pirveli Tovlis sisxam dilasaa... jerac gaukvalavi, TeTr
saban-asxmuli... aqaoda, TeTri feris mefobaao,
buxrebis sakvamurebidanac TeTri kvamli amodis...
isev jilda magondeba... TeTr Tbilisze simRera rom gvaCuqa da Tavad sisxlis gaTeTre-
bis gamo rom dagvSorda...
axla, roca drois gadmosaxedidan misi bagedan momwydar am bgerebs vusmenT, vxdebiT, rom
Turme sakuTar Tavze mReroda, icoda rom
fanteliviT gaqreboda da did tkivils dagvitovebda:
`iyo da ara iyo ra,
ra iqneboda netavi,
iyo patara Ciora,
susti da gaubedavi.
sad daikarga, vin icis,
iqneba gza aeria,
Tovli mosula TbilisSi,
Tbilisi Tovlisferia.
foTlis qveS xeleb-gaSlili
vdgevar da guli Rondeba,
ara yofila advili
warsulis gadaviwyeba~
jildas gza ar arevia! ufali Tavis samflobeloSi sacxovreblad angelozebs arCevda
da jildac iq aris albaT...
ai, gza-areuli ki, es meramdene welia Cven
davborialobT ucxo napirebs... mxrebze wlebTan erTad Tovlic gvaTovs da im dalocvil
Tovlian Tbiliss mxolod sizmrebSiRa vxedavT.
- sizmrebi xdeba xolme-o, gamigia...
`Tovlisferi Tbilisis~ sizmari amixdine,
RmerTo!
manuCar kaWaxiZe
- albaT rionis qvena dinebis siswrafidan, mtkvris darbaisluri dudunidan,
engurisa da Tergis Tavawyvetili Tavdaviwyebidan, mzis sxivebi erTmaneTTan
TamaSSi rom brWyvialeben da asarkeben
wylis zedapirs, Tan qvebis qviur guls
rom aTboben; iqneb svanuri koSkis kenwerodan simaRleebis aRmafreniT aRtacebuli da jixvis rqaSi Cawuruli
qarTuli sisxlis momuSakebidan - locva romaa sadRegrZeloSi CamoZerwili
da ena-mWevriT gadmocemuli; sveticxovlis saZirkvelSi wmida sidonias mklavebSi gansvenebuli CvenTvis wilad rgunebuli macxovris kvarTidan, xelisguliviT patara, magram ukidegano siyvarulidan, ticiani rom ityoda: `neta
sada aqvs am zvarebs bolo, vin dargo
erTad amdeni vazi, sjobs aRar gqondes
sulac samSoblo, anda ar iyos ase lamazi~.
m. kaWaxiZe, me-2 gverdze
vf[fhj,tkb
wuxelis biWi dabadebula,
gadaWarbebad Tu ar CamiTvliT,
iseTi biWi dabadebula,
daurqmeviaT Turme daviTi!
wuxelis biWi dabadebula,
daurqmeviaT imisTvis – cotne,
Sen – orgulobav, aba gabede
da guli Cveni iseve kortne.
wuxelis SoTac dabadebula,
dabadebula Turme demetre,
gangebav, Cveni saqarTvelosTvis
ra sixaruli gamoimete!
wuxel cis kari cxrave gaaRo
yvela gmirma da Tavdadebulma,
dabadebula Turme vaxtangi,
wuxel demetre dabadebula.
saqarTvelos ca, isec maRali,
ufrore metad amaRlebula,
dabadebula mTvare-giorgi,
Turme ilia dabadebula!
wuxelis mteri –
erTpirad Cveni
mospobis mdomi – dadardebula;
dabadebula Turme sulxani,
grigol xanZTeli dabadebula.
dabadebula biWi paata.
gaTenebula wuxelis TeTrad:
dabadebula samasi gmiri,
viT daixocnen,
iseve erTad!
wuxelis gogoc dabadebula,
cis nami, cisfrad nakamkamari,
iseTi gogo dabadebula,
daurqmeviaT Turme Tamari.
dabadebula wuxelis nino
da qeTevani dabadebula.
is bneli Rame Turme uecrad
RvTiuris naTliT ganaTlebula.
yvela zRapari – naocnebari
axdenila da gamarTlebula:
dabadebula Turme nestani
da TinaTini dabadebula.
da gixaroden!
qarTvelTa Soris
RviZl ZmaTa xidi kvlav gadebula
da erTiani, nanatri drois,
qarTli xelaxla dabadebula!
anzor abulaSvili
2
hbc
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htl
a
i
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o
t
a
r
o
b
a
l
eris funqcia
maradisobis
sakurTxevelTan
istorias uyvars raindebi da
gmirebi, maTi arsebobiT aris lamazi TviT istoria, igi uwyobs
xels gmirisa da raindis warmoSobas rogorc realur xilvad
qmnilebas da rogorc xelovnurad konkretuli momentisaTvis
warmoSobils, an sulac sapnis
operasaviT aTasnair qrobadi ferumzoliT Sekowiwebul-Selamazebuls. mas dro ar qmnis, mas
epoqa qmnis da Tavisi ideologiuri winsarT-bolosarTebiT (dros
moaqvs epoqa, epoqas ki saarsebod
sWirdeba Tavisi ideologiis Sesaferisi zneobrivi magaliTi, romliTac gamyarebuli iqneba epoqa
droSi). cxovrebas azri maSin
aqvs, rodesac gmiris, mefis, wmindanis cxovrebiT eqstazirebuli
(zog SemTxvevaSi egzaltirebuli)
eri (zog SemTxvevaSi - brbo) Tavisi bunebrivi monacemebiT erovnul energiaSi erTiani muxtiT
ikvreba da umagaliTo, epoqaluri
mniSvnelobis Zvrebi xdeba.
gmiris SeqmniT eri RmerTs
eZebs, - iseTs, rogoric TviT gmiria. amiT ikiTxeba ama Tu im epoqaSi eris zneobrioba. mTavaria
am ZiebaSi ar damaxinjdes RmerTi,
radgan ar daiSalos eris suli.
suli samSoblos usazRvro
SegrZnebaa, ukidures SemTxvevaSi
nostalgias rom warmoSobs dauokebelsa da sulis SemxuTvels.
saidan iwyeba samSoblo, siyvaruli rom Wirdeba?!
albaT rionis qvena dinebis
siswrafidan, mtkvris darbaisluri dudunidan, engurisa da Tergis
Tavawyvetili Tavdaviwyebidan,
mzis sxivebi erTmaneTTan TamaSSi
rom brWyvialeben da asarkeben
wylis zedapirs, Tan qvebis qviur
guls rom aTboben; iqneb svanuri
koSkis kenwerodan simaRleebis
aRmafreniT aRtacebuli da jixvis rqaSi Cawuruli qarTuli
sisxlis momuSakebidan - locva
romaa sadRegrZeloSi CamoZerwili da ena-mWevriT gadmocemuli,
sveticxovlis saZirkvelSi wmida
sidonias mklavebSi gansvenebuli
CvenTvis wilad rgunebuli macxovris kvarTidan (samSoblo romaa swored macxovris mistiuri
samare... da Cven odiTgan tkbil
iesoSi veZebT samSoblos da samSobloSi tkbil iesos, Tu es
urTierTSerwyma dairRva, eri
dakargavs msoflio funqcias da
mas daeSleba suli), xelisguliviT patara, magram ukidegano siyvarulidan, ticiani rom ityoda:
`neta sada aqvs am zvarebs bolo,
vin dargo erTad amdeni vazi,
sjobs aRar gqondes sulac samSoblo, anda ar iyos ase lamazi~.
gmiri da raindio, - weRan
vaxsene. wmida giorgi qarTveli
eris istoriis mTel rig epoqaTa
gmirTa gmiria, igi Cveni samSoblos sulier moZRvrad da simbolod iqca. es is SemTxvevaa, rodesac modgmas bunebrivad uCndeba
moTxovnileba gmirisa da wmindanis maradiuli saxebis wvdomisa,
raTa am gziT eziaros RmerTs da
moipovos RvTis kurTxeva,sulieri ganwmenda da TviTgadarCena.
promeTe-amiranic ki erma miTologiuri sibrZnis idumalebis
saburveliT Semosa da alegoriuli metyvelebis niuansebi SesZina
da gardasaxa gonieri eris aqtiur Zalad. xolo nacarqeqia zRapari araa, igi mTeli epoqaa mxolod qarTveli eris kuTvnili
da analogi ar moepoveba sakacobrio civilizaciaSi (nacars rom
qeqavs dReniadag, aqaoda, sakvamurs
rosebi verasodes mogvereva. es
instiqti Rrmad Cajda eris fsiqikaSi da Rrmad rom daakvirde, gasaocari da SemaZrwunebuli ulmobeloba da cinizmi ixateba Cvens
msoflWvretaSi. es zustad daafiqsira iliamac da mogvianebiT
msoflios auwya firosmanma. Tavdapirvelad gulistkiviliT aRiqvamdnen eris mamebi am Cvens Tvisebas, Semdeg ki igi samSoblos mZlavr iaraRad iqca yvela momxvduris winaSe. es aris swored
indiferentuloba. ai, mkveTri magaliTebi - Camovida puSkini, vasviT,
vaWameT, davbaneT... gvlanZRa da
gvTaTxa, Cven ki fexebze davikideT
TviT puSkini da gavagrZeleT Cveni dardimanduli yofa. ase gagr-
germaniaSic izrdeba, amerikaSic
da sadac gagexardeba. ufro metad
ki iqaurobas etanebian, sadac bevri
salafavia.
saqarTveloSi izrdebian bavSvebi, kidec uWirT da kidec
ulxinT. swavloben da aranakleb
da iqneb ukeTesadac am Hitlerjugend-ze. cxovrebaSi meti warmatebebi eqnebaT da iciT ratom?
imitom, rom isini samSoblos
gamoadgebian.
Cven fsiqoTerapevtebi ar gvWirdeba!
Cven qristiani eri varT da
Cvens gulistkivils, ukanasknel
kuTxe-kunWulamde moZRvars vabarebT aRsarebaSi. Cven RmerTTan
ity
fh zbhlt,b
cfmfhsdtkjc!
kvamli ar Caqres, radgan kvamli
saTvalavia komlSi sicocxliso).
da mainc, yvela ers udgeba Tavisi arsebobis manZilze Tavisi
bediswera - funqciis dakargvis
saSiSroeba. naciis siZliere damokidebulia imasze, Tu rogor
gaumklavdeba sakuTar bedisweras.
saqarTvelom, misma mmarTvelma
klasma me-19 saukuneSi dakarga
missia, sakacobrio missia, igi amovarda msoflio ganviTarebis orbitidan, xalxi iqca luarsabebad,
- kacebad, romelnic zedapirulad
aranair codvas ar sCadian - dadian wirva-locvebze, ar mruSoben
da a.S. sinamdvileSi ki qveynis
mmarTveli elita da aristokratia moicva mconarebam. daJangda
xrmali, funqcia daekarga cxens,
brZolasTan rom igivdeboda, wesrigSi SemoiWra erisTvis ucxo
da miuRebeli niuansebi - saldafonizmi, Tavis srulmomcvelobiT.
aisaxa kidec msoflio kulturis saganZurSi es `fexebzemkidioba~ da ruseTumeoba. firosmanis
tiloebze ganuwyveteli sma-qeifebia, ganuwyveteli zarxoSi, ganuwyveteli bohema. fexebze movikideT eris sruli siduxWire da
RvinoSi vaxrCobdiT dardsa da
boRmas. RvinoSi daixrCo TviT
firosmani da galaktioni. samSoblos SegrZneba TandaTanobiT lamazi da mware sizmrad gadaiqca.
TviTdinebam msoflio katastrofamde migviyvana. revolucia zogierTi eriskacisTvis safrTxobela iyo, zogisTvisac safrTxe.
da wamovida sinamdvilis yofierebaSi aTasi antigmiri...
Sen ar Wirdebi
saqarTvelos!
Cven rogorc adre, ise axlac
vcodavT. magram genetikurad SemogvrCa iseTi Zlieri TviTgadarCenis instiqti, rom veranairi
aTasi Sah-abasebi, Temur-lengebi,
lenin-stalinebi da xruSCov-so-
Zelda lermontovTanac, tolstoisTanac da sxva mraval rus
korifeebTan mimarTebaSic. es Tviseba saukuneebis ganmavlobaSi gamoibrZmeda da dRes araTu gulis
mosvla da wyenaa informaciul
omebSi, fexebze gvkidia mavanTa
da mavanTa Sexedulebebi Cvenze.
ufro metic, TviTgadarCenisTvis,
sakuTari Tavic gvkidia fexebze,
raTa am ulmobel droSi ar gaviTeloT da ar gadagvylapos dauzogavad uxeSma da gauTvaliswinebelma msoflio axalma wesrigma
da sakacobrio movlenebma. raRac
momentSi fexebze davikideT afxazeTi, radgan gvgonia, rom ver davibrunebT da ar gvinda SevakvdeT
am uazro oms.
amdenad, am yvelafris fonze,
yalbad JRers Jurnalist Tiniko
CiTinaSvilis werilis saTaurad
wamosrolili dananeba viRac marika gorelaSvilis mimarT, romelic Tavbrudamxvev warmatebebSi
adamianis saxes kargavs (es interviu germaniaSi gamomaval JurnalSi `qarTuli~ daibeWda da
misi wakiTxva `mamulis~ mkiTxvelebs Cveni gazeTis me-13, Tars
gverdze SeuZliaT).
da raa iseTi warmatebebi, romlisTvisac is ar unda daikargos
saqarTvelosTvis?!
savsebiT araferi!
arc erTi turi, olimpiada, saCuqrebi da stipendiebi ar Rirs
im fasad, adamiani (mapatieT, da)
Rorad iqces da es Tvrameti
wlis asakSi.
saqarTveloSi rom waikiTxon
misi es interviu, merwmuneT, mas
erTi megobaric aRar darCeba.
SesaZlebelia saqarTveloze mogonebebSi daitovos biZa, bebia da
mama-papiseuli saxli, Tu es ukanasknelic sWirdeba mas, radgan
Rors samSoblo ar gaaCnia, igi
molaparake xalxi varT da ara
momaval fsiqoTerapevt marika
gorelaSvilTan. es ufro didi
saqmea da Rirseuli.
Cven wiTeli jvari gavaZeveT
saqarTvelodan, Tavsac nu Seiwuxebs igi am egidiTa da missiiT
saqarTveloSi samoRvaweod. Cveni
rCevaa - kargad iswavlos man
fizika da maTematika, gaimarjvos
turebsa da olimpiadebze, aiRos
bevri, bevrze bevri fuli, unda
amerikaSi icxovros, unda imis
iqiT.
es ki unda icodes, rom igi
saqarTvelos araferSi ar sWirdeba! dasakargi ki ara, TiTqos arc
yofila.
asea es!
saqarTvelodan bevri midioda
saswavleblad ucxo qveynebSi.
bevri ukan brundeboda mxolod
imisTvis, rom Tavisi qveynis samsaxurSi Camdgariyvnen da TavianTi
codna-gamocdileba moxmareboda
samSoblos. es xalxi didi xalxi
iyvnen da didi saxeli datoves
istoriaSi, maTi frCxilis Rirsic rom ar aris fizika-maTematikos-fsiqoTerapevti. maTi CamoTvlac ki Sors wagviyvans da sircxvili iqneba am usaxo saxis gverdiT dayeneba.
mas saqarTvelom yvelaferi
misca - swavla, ganaTleba, aRiareba,
saCuqaric (marTalia xarisxiT
naklebi, vidre aTasevroiani kompiuteri) da verafriT ver davadanaSauleb saqarTvelos, ai, esa da
es kaci ar aRiareT da iZulebuli gaxda daetovebina Tavisi qveyanao. amis Tqmis ufleba mas ara
aqvs. fulis Rorulma wyurvilma
da ampartavnebam daatovebina Tavisi yofili samSoblo (`yofili~
coli gamigia, magram samSoblos
gamocvla?!) imitom, rom samSoblos ar gaaCnda misTvis Sesaferisi jibe.
erTis moRalate sxvasac uRa-
latebs. es mis momaval mizanSic
aisaxa, roca iwinaswarmetyvela,
amerikaSi mxolod profesorad
mivdivaro.
da bolos...
dRes rom yofiliyo saqarTvelo nikofsiiTgan darubandamdis...
mainteresebs, ra poziciebze dadgeboda marika gorelaSvili?!
rom yofiliyo Zveleburad mZlavri saganmanaTleblo centrebi
saqarTveloSi, sad wavidoda
netav?!
rom hqonoda iverTa-miwas iseTi dovlaTi da siuxve, rac Tamaris dros iyo da ar gvqonoda
gamxdari saocnebod da idealad
`dro daviTis da Tamaris~, visTan
imegobrebda igi netav?!
maSin, darwmunebuli var, Roris
fsiqikidan gamomdinare mjiRebs
daicemda gulze da saqarTvelos
dRegrZelobaSi gaaTen-daaRamebda,
rogorc fuqsavati demagogi. arada, Tu samSoblos SegrZnebas ara
aqvs gadamwyveti da arsebiTi mniSvneloba, maSin analogiurad ra
mniSvneloba aqvs misTvis, vin miscems mas aTasevroian kompiuters
Tu ordRian kalkulators - germaneli, amerikeli Tu qarTveli,
petre, pavle Tu ivane. misTvis
mTavaria am SemTxvevaSi saCuqris
Rirebuleba da mas Seaqebs, vinc
ukeTes saCuqars miscems. ai, esaa
Roroba! am saqcielma wamomacdevina Cemi bagedan adamianisaTvis
yovlad uRirso sityva.
amitom arafrad miRirs misi
turebi da olimpiadebi (sxvaTaSoris, es turebi da olimpiadebi
dRemde sabWouri meTodikiTa da
paTosiT mimdinareobs);
amitom arafrad miRirs misi
stipendiebi da saCuqrebi...
amitom arafrad miRirs misi
ganswavluloba fizikaSi, maTematikaSi Tu fsiqoTerapiaSi.
ra mniSvneloba aqvs CemTvis
misi tvinis ujredi ramdenime
xaziT ufro metad Tu naklebad
iqneba daRaruli. es mxolod mas
gamoadgeba, mets aravis. verc amerikaSi ipovis igi sakuTar Tavs,
radgan TviT amerikaSi Tavsayrelad arian profesorebi da fsiqoTerapevtebi masze gacilebiT
ukeTesebi da ganaTlebulebi. igi
amerikas axals verafers SesTavazebs da amitom uxerxuli aris
Jurnalistis mxridan aseTi remarkebis gakeTeba imis mimarT, romelic safuZvelSive ganwirulia
katastrofisTvis. mas ise mouva,
rogorc Ramuras - arc frinvelebSi rom ar sweria da arc
TagvebSi.
am dReebSi saqarTvelos miwas
daubrunda samocdaTxuTmeti
wlis win bedisweris ZaliT ucxoeTSi gadaxvewili didi qarTveli patriotis qaquca ColoyaSvilis Zvlebi. da merwmuneT, am
dReebSi iveria rogorc arasdros,
iseTi Zlieri da mamaci iyo, roca
mamuliSvils samocdaTxuTmeti
wlis win dagubebuli cremliT
egebeboda mamuli. JRerda `Savlego~ da ukve axlac, amdeni xnis
Semdeg mTels ers Jruanteli uvlida tanSi.
aba mosuliyo da movides
yvela gadamTieli erTad aRebuli
Cveni samSoblos asaoxreblad...
Cven aRara varT is qarTvelebi,
damarcxebas rom SevuSindebiT!
ai, vin akeTebs did saqmes Cvens
qveyanaSi - micvalebulis Zvlebi,
da ara usaxo saxis cocxali
leSi, romlis saxelsa da gvars
arc arasodes gaixseneben. is ki
arada, arc ecodinebaT, radgan saqarTveloSi mas biZis da bebiis
meti aravin elodeba.
iqneb arc isini?!
manuCar kaWaxiZe
3
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rtsbk fhc xdtylf fmf .jaf7 lf ertse uyt,fdc7
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4
2
Sexvedris dro: 2005 wlis 30 oqtomberi
Sexvedris adgili: bruklini, restorani `nacionali~
Sexvedris mizezi: gazeT `mamulis~ iubile
mayurebelTa raodenoba: 500 (xuTasi) qarTveli
ganwyoba darbazSi: qarTuli suli
sufraze: SoTis puri, kuWmaWi, nigvziani badrijani
gazeT `mamulis~ redaqtoris sityva iubileze
uCveulo da ucnauri eri varT... qarTvelebi!
wigns, iseTs `dedaena~ romaa, Zegls vudgamT...
is ki arada, yvavils, gazafxulis pirvel maxarobels, ias, qvaSi vaqandakebT... da sulsac vSTaberavT... iseTs, ymawvils rom caSi aafrens...
uCveulo varT-Tqo, ase ar daviwye?!
am bolo dros gazeTis iubileebis aRniSvna
dagvCemda...
qveyana, romelic 100 wlis iubiles zeimobs
Jurnal `dilisas~, 80 wlis uxdeba Jurnali
`mnaTobi~, ufro metis kidev, 153 wlis Jurnali
`ciskari~, ar iviwyebs da aRniSnavs gazeT `mamulis~
sul patara, pawawkintela TariRs, ori wlis
iubiles...
or wels sityviT vambob, Torem `mamulis~
istoria eeee, saidan iwyeba...
gemaxsovrebaT, qarTuli Jurnalistikis gzis
pirvel-gamkvlevTa interesi samzareulos sibrZniT damTavrda - rusTvelidan da besikidan kneina
jorjaZesTan aRmovCndiT; `vefxistyaosnis~ unazesi
akvnesebidan saqarTvelo kereseliZis `ciskris~
redaqciamdis mivida, sadac gulmodgined swavlobdnen kombostos damJavebasa da bozbaSis keTebas.
Semdeg iyo revoluciis iluzia, TergdaleulTa
poezia, keTilSobili gaqaneba moqalaqeobriv motivebSi; poeziis kastracia bankobiiTa da apelaciebiT,
samagierod krilovis igav-arakebiT garToba da
`sulikos~ ideiT daZineba.
barabaniTa da muzikiT kvdeboda saqarTvelo,
`ra kargi gamogonebaa sasasflao~ - ambobda damtvreuli rusuliT baraTaSvili, orbeliani ki sadRegrZeloebSi da lopianas muxambazebSi iklavda patriotul Jins. samagierod, cecxli ekideboda `iverias~, ise gamoiara darCenili saukune da gadavida
momdevnoSi. daberda ilia mesaZirkvle da sulisdgma
`iveriisa~... propelerebma daafrTxo zecis idumaleba, sivrce acaxcaxda radios tokviT, cxenma saWiroeba dakarga da manqanebis qariSxalma gaaniava
warsuli. ai, movidnen `vaJkacebi~ sastiki qariSxliT da moerien keTilSobil moxucs, romelic
brundeboda saxlSi. ai, vaJkacoba! taSi amxanagebo!
ilias `iveriidan~ am gaqanebulma drom gazeT
`komunistis~ redaqciaSi migviyvana, Tavzars rom
scemda misi gesliani kalami yvelas da yvelafers.
`komunistis~ foladis kalami beladebis qeba-didebiTa da maTze SeTxzuli nekrologebis maRalfardovanebaSi gamoiwrTo, TiTqmis mTeli qveyana
rom awerda xels am teqstebs. TavisTavad, yvela
xelmomweri avtori iyo nekrologis da paradoqsmac ar daayovna: nekrologSi sityvebi rom dageTvala calke da avtorTa gvarebi calke, Tanafardoba
daaxloebiT aseTi iqneboda - erT sityvaze samioTxi avtori modioda...
Cven CamovediT aq, seqs-en-enebisa da Taimsebis
qveyanaSi, da CamovitaneT is pirvandeli Jurnalisturi gataceba, is paTosi, iliaseul `iverias~
rom hqonda, is simtkice, rac `komunists~ hqonda,
is mravalferovneba, rac Cven SevqmeniT... arsebobis
dRidan gazeTma `mamulma~ am ukidegano sivrceSi
dagvakavSira erTmaneTTan da rac mTavaria, uxilavi
ZafiT migvaba Cvens samSoblosTan...
piruTvnelad vaSuqebT saqarTvelodan Camosul
ambebs, mZimes, magram simarTles, sxva ganzomilebidan
vafasebT movlenebs, isaa, rom Rrma nostalgias
TeTr sastambo furclebSi vaqsovT...
minda xmamaRlad ganvacxado!... verc erTi gazeTis
redaqcia daikvexnis mkiTxvelTa siyvaruls ise,
rogorc `mamulis~ mkiTxvelebma ician...
- `mamulis~ mkiTxvelia, konvertSi Sekvra safosto marka rom Cagvido, wagexidebaTo...
- `mamulis~ mkiTxvelia, dRes ubileTobis gamo
rom ver movida, magram Tavisi mamuliSviluri wvlili mainc gaiRo...
- `mamulis~ mkiTxvelia WeSmaritad qarTuli
WaRara, 82 wlis bebia, romelmac gazeTis erTi nomris gamocema daafinansa inkognitod...
- albaT, marTla Zlier unda giyvardes Seni gazeTi, SeyvarebuliviT saiubileod yvavilebis lamazi
Taiguli rom gaugzavno...
- ar minda damaviwydes, rom `mamulis~ mkiTxvelia
qalbatoni naTela cxvedianic, leqsis es striqonebi
rom mogviZRvna:
`ori wlis aris Cveni `mamuli~,
samSoblo qveynis patara ylorti,
amerikaSi fexi aidga
da datantalebs StatebSi fostiT.
sad ara naxavT, sad ar SexvdebiT,
yvela qarTvelis megobaria,
frTxilad exeba Cvens sulis simebs,
xan mwared, xan tkbil-moubaria.
xan cremlebs gvadens, xan ki gvacinebs,
gviyveba ambebs - Zvelsa Tu axals,
gvaimedebs da Tan gvanugeSebs,
gviZRvnis sixaruls, siyvaruls mravals.~
sityva gamigrZelda, Torem uamravi ramis gaxseneba
SeiZleboda...
vecdebi dasasrulisken waviyvano es gamosvla...
Cemo Zvirfaso mkiTxvelo... uRrmes madlobas mogaxsenebT, pativi rom dagvdeT da mobrZandiT Cvens SemoTavazebul, saqvelmoqmedo saRamoze, mcire xniT gavixseneT
samSoblo, vusmendiT tkbil qarTuls da davtkbiT qarTuli cekva-simRerebiT... es piradad CemTvis aris mozRvavebuli nostalgiis gaqarveba, mcire xniT mainc...
imeds gamovTqvam, rom ar dagvWirdeba arc erTs sxvadasxva
qveynebSi saarsebo wyaros Zebna da erTad SevegebebiT
laR samSoblos...
5
gazeTis am sivrceSi reportaJi unda dagvebeWda... reportaJi imisa, Tu rogor aRniSna
amerikis qarTvelobam erTaderTi qarTuli gazeTis iubile!
mokled rom vTqvaT, am dRes
iyo qarTuli simReris, cekvisa
da sityvis zeimoba, siyvaruli,
sixaruli, Sexvedra monatrebul adamianebTan...
magram...
modiT viyoT marTalni sakuTar TavTan da isic vaRiaroT,
rom iyo xmauric... danebisa da
Canglebis xmaSewyobili urTierToba rom warmoSobda da
erTmaneTTan saubris xmasac
rom ar vaklebdiT...
scenaze filmebis kadrebi
gadioda, iq mamluqi kvdeboda,
aqeT dodo abaSiZis gmiri tiroda aeroportSi qarTuli
simReris gagonebaze, erosic saubrobda aRelvebuli im erTi
ramis siyvarulze, damalva rom
unda...
darbazi ki xmaurobda... danebisa da Canglebis cekvas cekvavda!
ar gveSinia, rom xmamaRlad
vTqvaT:
- berZeni biWisaviT, ianguliviT, CvenTvisac samSoblo ufro
Rrmadaa, mxolod im gansxvavebiT,
rom araTu gulSi... k u W S i !
es minaweri ar exeba damswre
sazogadoebis im 10%-s, Tvalcremlianebs, romlisTvisac
gazeTi `mamuli~ jerac agrZelebs arsebobas.
gTavazobT gazeTis iubilis
foto-kolaJs, mxolod istoriisaTvis... Tumca arc imas vmalavT, rom arsebobs sxva suraTebic, romelTa dabeWdvis ufleba redaqtorma sakuTar Tavs
ar misca.
6
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ýòîé æèçíè îí îñòàëñÿ âåðåí çà ÷åñòü= ñîâåñòü=
äîñòîéíñòâî= íåçà-âèñèìîñòü è ïðàâî íà çåìëå
ãðóçèíñêîãî íàðîäà è íàðîäîâ Êàâêàçà! È ïîñëåäíèé
øàã îí ñäåëàë â Âå÷íîñòü= ÷òîáû ïðåäîòâðàòèòü åãî
èìåíåì è ïîä åãî çíàìåíåì äàëüíåéøåå êðîâîïðîëèòèå â Ãðóçèè\
ß õîðîøî çíàþ= ïî÷åìó îí óøåë èç Ãðóçèè - Çâèàä
Êîíñòàíòèíîâè÷ íå áûë èç ðîáêîãî äåñÿòêà è òðóñîâ! Ýòî áûë ìóæåñòâåííûé= ñèëüíûé= îäàðåííûé
ñàìèì Áîãîì è ïðèðîäîé ÷åëîâåê! Òàêîé ÷åëîâåê
íåîñîçíàííî íå ìîã ñäåëàòü íè îäèí øàã! È êîãäà
ÓØÅÑÒÂÈÅ - äëÿ òîãî= ÷òîáû ñâîèì øàãîì= åùå
ðàç= ïîä÷åðêíóòü ñâîþ ïðèâåðæåííîñòü è ëþáîâü
Ãðóçèè è âñåìó íàðîäó!
Ìû ïðèîáðåëè - òåëî âåëèêîãî ÷åëîâåêà è Ñûíà
Êàâêàçà ïðåäàåòñÿ ýòîé çåìëå! Ìû ñ÷àñòëèâû ïðèíÿòü ýòî òåëî íà ýòó çåìëþ\ Ãäå-íèáóäü= Âñåâûøíèé
áëàãîñëîâèë è â ýòîò ðàç ýòó çåìëþ! Òàê óæ ïîëó÷èëîñü\\\ Íî ìû íå îòðûâàåì åãî îò Ãðóçèè= íå îòðûâàåì îò Êàâêàçà - ýòî Ñûí Êàâêàçà! È õîòÿò ïðîòèâíèêè òîãî= èëè íåò - ýòî òàëàíòëèâåéøèé è ãåíèàëüíåéøèé ÷åëîâåê Íàøåãî Âðåìåíè!
ÌÈÐ ÅÃÎ ÏÐÀÕÓ È ÆÈÇÍÜ ÅÃÎ ÄÅËÀÌ!
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13
- gorelaSvili (ase iwyeben saubars telefoniT, germaniaSi red)...
- gamarjobaT. me Tiniko var, CiTinaSvili. Cven yvelas
Zalian gvixaria, rodesac Seni warmatebebis Sesaxeb gvesmis
da gvsurda Sens Sesaxeb Cvens JurnalSi dagvewera.
satelefono saubari ase daiwyo, Sexvedra ki saRamos
8 saaTze, ubralod da gulTbilad, „rathausTan“ Sedga.
ise, rogorc miunxeneli qarTvelebi erTmaneTs xSirad
xvdebian. miunxenis seqtembris bolosTvis aradamaxasiaTebel Tbils saRamos, Ria cis qveS, finjan yavaze didxans
visaubreT. gavige, rom marika 18 wlisaa. ukve 3 welia
mSoblebTan, qalbaton lalisTan da baton iliasTan erTad
miunxenSi cxovrobs. aris gimnaziis 13-e niWierTa klasis
moswavle, uyvars dostoevski, flobs 30-mde di ploms
fizikis da maTematikis olimpiadebidan da Tavisufal
dros taekvandos misdevs. Tumca, amaze TanmimdevrobiT
misive sityvebiT:
es interviu germaniaSi gamomaval Jurnal `qarTulis~ pirvel nomerSi,
me-16-17 gverdebze daibeWda.
didi survili gvqonda mivsalmebodiT axali qarTuli Jurnalis daarse
daarse-bis faqts Cveni qveynis gareT, Tumca survili am etapze survilad rCeba.
gazeT `mamulis~ redaqtors ergo `bedniereba~, rom sakuTari TvaliT,
`originalSi~ waekiTxa es interviu da Jurnalis kabadonis Sreebze sa
sa-kuTari SeniSvnebic CaeniSna.
am SeniSvnebis wakiTxvas redaqtoris, anu gazeTis meore gverdze gTavazobT,
manamde ki gTxovT, waikiTxoT Tavad `avadsaxsenebeli~ interviu.
saqarTvelov, Sen vin mogca Svili dasakargavi!
_ germaniaSi jer bevri araferi gamikeTebia. erT olimpidaSi
gavimarjve da maTematikis di plomi aviRe da meore – axlandeli sti pendia.
- Tu imiT daviwyebT, rom
or TveSi germanul enas ise
daeufle, rom gimnaziaSi geswavla... mainc ra meTodiT
Tu reJimiT moaxerxe amis
gakeTeba?
_ rom giTxra, vijeqi da ori
Tvis ganmavlobaSi dRe da Rame
vswavlobdi-meTqi, ase ar yofila. ubralod, sanam gimnaziaSi
wavidodi, dro mqonda da yoveldRe 200 sityvas vswavlobdi.
movaswari, Torem mere amis dro
aRar mqonia.
- me ramdenadac vici, bavariis ganaTlebis saministro
ar scnobs araTu sazRvargareT, aramed TviTon germaniis sxva bundeslandebis ganaTlebis klasobriv sistemas da xSir, TiTqmis umravles SemTxvevaSi moswavleebi wels kargaven.
_ me movige. me-10 klasSi viyavi saqarTvelodan rom wamovediT. erTi semestri skolaSi saerTod ar mivlia. TebervalSi
meaTe klasidan gavagrZele da
niWier bavSvTa klasSic movxvdi.
- es rogor?
_ ubralod. mivedi direqtorTan da ganvucxade, rom mis skolaSi mindoda swavla da amis
mizezad skolaSi niWier bavSvTa
klasis arseboba davusaxele. imanac, Sesabamisad, momTxova, jer misTvis damesabuTebina, rom amis moTxovnis safuZveli mqonda (raSic Cemi di plomebi damexmara)
da Semdeg maTematikis maswavleblisTvis, rom niWieri bavSvi viyavi. es Semowmebac gaviare da
swavla daviwye.
- Tavis garTmeva, rogorc
Cans ar gagiWirda. rogorc
vici, cota xanSi moswavleebic mogiCines.
_ es Cveulebrivi daxmarebis
gawevaa moswavleebisTvis, rasac
„naxhilfes“ eZaxian. ubralod,
saWiroa maRali niSnebi da maswavleblis nebarTva, Caataro gakveTilebi.
- rogor da sad aRmogaCines?
_ vswavlobdi quTaisis klasikur gimnaziaSi. Cemi axlandeli naTlia eZebda me-6 klasel
niWier bavSvebs. me me-5 klaSi
viyavi, magram Cemi maswavleblis
rekomendaciiT amiyvana da pirvelad maSin aviRe pirveli adgili me-6 klasel bavSvebTan. daviwye mecadineoba da maTematikis me-6 klasis programa mexuTeSi gaviare. amis Semdeg, TiTqmis yvela fizikis da maTematikis olimpiadaze pirvel adgil-
ze viyavi. Cemi asakis bavSvebSi
nomer pirveli fizikosi viyavi
da maTematikis pirvel xuTeulSi.
- albaT, kiTxvac ar unda,
rom Seni momavali profesiac am or sagans ukavSirdeba.
_ ara. samedicinoze Cabareba
maqvs gadawyvetili.
- fizika da maTematika?!
_ me biologiac kargad vici
da qimiac. sxva profesiaze arc
mifiqria. jer erTi, albaT imis
gamo, rom deda eqimi myavs da
meorec, minda Cemi codna da
energia adamianebis janmrTelobas da sicocxles movaxmaro.
- Seni gadawyvetileba Tu
ukavSirdeba ramenairad saqarTvelos. Cvens saubarSi
axsene, rom aqauri situaciis da megobrebis daTmobas
ar apireb.
_ Cemi saqarTveloSi sacxovreblad dabruneba gamoricxulia.
iq Cemi codna da Sroma arasdros ar dafasdeba. me aq 10
weli universitetSi imisTvis
ver viswavli, rom saqarTveloSi
Cavide da 100 larze vimuSavo.
- Tu SenTvis prioriteti
adamianis janmrTelobasa da
sicocxleze zrunvaa, saqarTveloSi ufro farTo asparezi geqneboda, vidre aq. amaSi xels maRalkvalificirebuli specialistebis naklebobac da saSvel adamianTa siWarbec Segiwyobda.
_ im sferoSi, sadac me muSaobas vapireb, aqac bevrs sWirdeba
daxmareba.
- ra sferoSi apireb muSaobas?
_ fsiqoTerapiaSi. me rom saqarTveloSi Cavide da gamovacxado, fsiqoTerapevti var da
problemebis SemTxvevaSi CemTan
mobrZandiT-meTqi, axlos aravin
gamekareba. erT-erTi gegma saqarTvelosTan dakavSirebiT is maqvs,
rom wiTel jvarTan TanamSromlobiT, 2-3 kviriani vizitebiT
Cavide da ufasod movemsaxuro
avadmyofebs.
- gaqvs uSualo kavSiri
wiTel jvarTan?
_ ki, skolaSi pirveli daxmarebis gundSi var. ra Tqma unda,
gaviare specialuri momzadeba da
yovelTvis didi siamovnebiT var
mzad daxmarebis gasawevad.
- mainc ra fenomenia saqarTvelo SenTvis. ra datvirTva aqvs mas?
_ princi pSi, didi araferi.
ubralod, iq myavs ramdenime araCveulebrivi megobari, romlebic
Zalian menatrebian da Cemi ojaxis erTi nawili, biZa da bebia.
maT sanaxavad drodadro, ra Tqma
unda, Caval. ase SarSanac viyavi
Casuli. Zalian kargi iyo, magram
isic unda aRvniSno, rom stumrad vgrZnobdi sakuTar saxlSi
Tavs.
- Sens am gadwyvetilebas,
albaT, is gamarTleba aqvs,
rom saqarTveloSi Seni ganviTarebis da SesaZleblobebis gamoyenebis pirobebs ver
xedav. Teoriulad rom davuSvaT aseTis arseboba, maSinac uars ityodi saqarTveloSi cxovrebaze?
_ im qveyanaSi ubralod ver
vicxovreb. CemTvis germaniac iseTive samSobloa, rogorc saqarTvelo da amas ufro ver Sevelevi.
- yvelaze metad ras ver
Seelevi?
_ Cems aqaur megobrebs.
- Sen saqarTveloSic gyavs
megobrebi, romlebic ramdenime wlis win datove da
albaT axlac gelodebian.
_ im megobrebTan kontaqtis
gawyvetas ar vapireb, magram vTvli,
rom aq SeZenil megobrebTan meti
maqvs saerTo da Cveni urTierToba ufro myar safuZvelzea damyarebuli.
- anu, sadac yvelaze didi
siamovnebiT icxovrebdi, mainc germania da miunxenia?
_ miunxeni Zalian miyvars, magram didi siamovnebiT vicxovrebdi amerikaSic, mxolod im pirobiT, rom romelime universitetSi profesorad damniSnaven.
- anu Sen ufro da ufro
Sors midixar Cvengan. rac
Seexeba aqaur megobrebTan
urTierTobas. Seni mentalitetiT, azrovnebiT, Sexedu-
lebebiT winaaRmdegobaSi ar
modixar maTTan?
_ aseTi momentebi xSirad aris,
magram es Cvens megobrobas xels
ar uSlis. isini Cems mentalitets da warmodgenebs scemen pativs, me _ maTsas.
- igive Tavisufali drois gatarebas maTTan erTad,
garTobas, Tvli, rom araferi
ar aklia, an ar fiqrob, rom
es qarTvel megobrebTan ukeTesad gamovidoda?
_ ara. SemiZlia vTqva, rom germanelebmac iseTive kargi, SeiZleba ukeTesi megobrobac ki ician
qarTvelebze.
- rogoria Seni mSoblebis damokidebuleba Sens samomavlo gegmebTan dakavSirebiT?
_ Cems mSoblebs undodaT, rom
me evropaSi mimeRo ganaTleba. me
aq SemiZlia maqsimumis gakeTeba
da amdenad, isini winaaRmdegni
ar arian. amerikaSi wasvlac imitom maqvs Cafiqrebuli, rom is
sfero, sadac me minda vimuSavo,
iq yvelaze kargadaa ganviTarebuli. aq mTavari Cemi karieraa
da is, Tu sad SemiZlia meti
gavakeTo.
- davubrundeT Cvens ZiriTad sasaubro Temas da
axladdaniSnul sti pendiasa da 20 oqtombers bavariis ganaTlebis ministrTan dagegmil Sexvedraze gadavideT.
_ am sti pendiis gacema 2005
wlis seqtembridan daiwyo. SeirCa bavariidan 50 saukeTeso ucxouri warmoSobis, anu aragermaneli bavSvi 8-dan me-13 klasis
CaTvliT. ucxouri niSnavs warmoSobiT, Tumca umetesoba aq dabadebulia. dagegmilia sxvadasxva saxis RonisZiebebi, romelTagan pirveli – 20 oqtombers
ministrTan Sexvedra da mis mier CvenTvis di plomebis gadmocemaa. amis Semdeg, yovel or TveSi 50-ve SevxvdebiT, gakeTdeba
saswavlo programebi, gveqneba urTierToba profesorebTan. aseve
gvexmarebian finansuradac. mag.:
axla SemomTavazes 1000 evros
gamoyofa axali komiuteris sayidlad. anu, yvelanairi pirobaa
Seqmnili, rom Cveni SesaZleblobebi gamovavlinoT da ganvaviTaroT. rom meubnebi, saqarTveloSi wadio, iqac imaves vakeTebdi,
rasac aq vakeTeb, magram vinme micnobda fizikis da maTematikis
profesorebis garda?! erTaderTi mTeli Cemi olimpiadebis dros
rac saqarTveloSi jildod miviRe, iyo „kalkulatori“ da isic
iseTi iaffasiani, rom erT TveSi
gafuWda.
- Tavisufal dros, Tu
gaqvs aseTi, ras akeTeb xolme?
_ aseTi iSviaTad maqvs da vkiTxuleb, velosi pediT davdivar, magram ZiriTad dros mainc taekvandos vaxmar.
- me mainc ase davasrulebdi Cvens saubars: iqneb
mainc gefiqra imaze, rom saqarTvelos ara hyavs dasakargi Svilebi da yvela warmatebasTan erTad mainc saqarTveloSi gisurvebdi gqonodes is pirobebi, ramac aq
cxovreba gvaiZula.
Tiniko CiTinaSvili
14
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à ÿ íå âûíîøó ôîðìàëüíîñòåé\ ß
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è ÿ íå õî÷ó äåëàòü íè÷åãî= ÷òî îãðàíè÷èâàåò ìîþ ñâîáîäó\ ß âîîáùå
íå ëþáëþ áûòü â öåíòðå âíèìàíèÿ=
íå ëþáëþ ïðàçäíèêîâ= íèêîãäà
äàæå íå îòìå÷àþ ñâîé äåíü ðîæäåíèÿ\
- À ÷åì ìîæíî îáúÿñíèòü òî= ÷òî
“Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” (ÐÊ) è
“Ìåòàëëîèíâåñò” äàæå íå ïîäòâåðæäàëè= ÷òî âû ñîáñòâåííèê ýòèõ
ñòðóêòóð~
- ß íèêîãäà íå íàðóøàë çàêîí= è
ìíå íå÷åãî ñêðûâàòü\ Ïðîñòî= ê ñîæàëåíèþ= ñ ñàìîãî íà÷àëà ïåðåñòðîéêè âñå ìû= áèçíåñìåíû= ïðîæèëè â íåêîåì íàïðÿæåíèè èç-çà
òîãî= ÷òî ÷òî-òî ìîæåò óãðîæàòü òâîåìó áèçíåñó\ Ãîðàçäî ñïîêîéíåå
áûëî çàíèìàòüñÿ áèçíåñîì= íå ïðèâëåêàÿ âíèìàíèÿ ê ñâîåé ïåðñîíå
è ê ñâîåé ñîáñòâåííîñòè\
-  íà÷àëå 90-õ îáñòàíîâêà â
Ðîññèè äåéñòâèòåëüíî áûëà íàïðÿæåííàÿ= íî äàëåêî íå âñå áèçíåñìåíû óåçæàëè çà ãðàíèöó= êàê
âû\ Êîãäà âû óåõàëè èç ñòðàíû è
ïî÷åìó~
- Âïåðâûå ÿ óåõàë èç Ðîññèè â
1993 ã\ ïîñëå êðàæè ìîåãî áðàòà â
Ãðóçèè\ Çà íåãî òðåáîâàëè âûêóï=
äåðæàëè ìåñÿö= íî ÿ âûêóï íå äàë=
ïîòîìó ÷òî ïîñòàâèë áû ïîä àíàëîãè÷íóþ óãðîçó ñâîèõ ðîäèòåëåé=
ñåñòåð\ Èõ ïîòîì íèêòî íå òðîíóë\
À êî ìíå ñòàëè ïðèåçæàòü èç Ãðóçèè ðàçíûå ÷èíîâíèêè= êîòîðûå
ïûòàëèñü ïîìî÷ü ìíå â íàõîæäåíèè áðàòà= ïðåäëàãàòü ñîòðóäíè÷åñòâî\ Ïóñêàòü èõ â ñâîé áèçíåñ ÿ
íå õîòåë= ÷òîáû èçáåæàòü êîíòàêòîâ
ñ íèìè= ÿ ðåøèë ôîðìàëüíî îòäàëèòüñÿ îò áàíêà| çàÿâèë= ÷òî óõîæó
ñ ïîñòà ïðåçèäåíòà= à â 1994 ã\ íà
ïîëãîäà óåõàë ñ ñåìüåé ê çíàêîìûì
â ÑØÀ\ Ñèòóàöèÿ â Ãðóçèè áûëà
íåñïîêîéíàÿ= êàçàëîñü= ÷òî æèòü çà
ãðàíèöåé ñïîêîéíåå= äóìàëè= ìîæåò= ñòîèò óåõàòü ðàäè äåòåé= èõ
áóäóùåãî\ Âûáèðàëè ñòðàíó= êîòîðàÿ áîëüøå âñåãî ïîíðàâèòñÿ= îñòàíîâèëèñü íà Ôðàíöèè= êóïèëè äîì
ïîä Ïàðèæåì\ Íî ìû ïîñòîÿííî
òàì íå æèëè= ïî áèçíåñó= îñîáåííî ïîñëå äåôîëòà= â îñíîâíîì ïðèõîäèëîñü áûòü â Ìîñêâå\
- Íî òåì íå ìåíåå ôðàíöóçñêîå
ãðàæäàíñòâî âû ïîëó÷èëè~
- Æåíà è äåòè - äà= ÿ íå ñòàë ïîëó÷àòü= ýòî îòíÿëî áû ìíîãî âðåìåíè| íàäî áûëî ïðîõîäèòü ñîáåñåäîâàíèÿ è ïðî÷\
- Íå æàëååòå= ÷òî ïðåæäå íå äàâàëè èíòåðâüþ~ Íåóæåëè âàñ
îñòàâëÿëî ðàâíîäóøíûì òî= ÷òî î
âàñ ïèøóò~
- Êîíå÷íî= íåò\  îòëè÷èå îò ðîññèéñêèõ ÑÌÈ ÿ ïîñòîÿííî áûë â
ïîëå âíèìàíèÿ ãðóçèíñêèõ æóðíàëèñòîâ\ Íåêîòîðûå èç íèõ çàíèìàëèñü ïåðåïå÷àòêàìè èç Èíòåðíåòà=
ãäå äîëãîå âðåìÿ áûëî ïîìåùåíî
äîñüå= ñôîðìèðîâàííîå ÿêîáû èç
äàííûõ ñëóæáû áåçîïàñíîñòè ãðóïïû “Ìîñò”\ Ïîñêîëüêó ìû ñåðüåçíî êîíêóðèðîâàëè êîãäà-òî ñ Ìîñòáàíêîì= íåóäèâèòåëüíî= ÷òî ýòî äîñüå ñîäåðæàëî ïîëíûé íàáîð
èçâðàùåííîé ÷óøè ïðî ÐÊ è ìåíÿ
ëè÷íî= äà åùå íàïèñàííîé ñ èñïîëüçîâàíèåì êðèìèíàëüíîãî æàðãîíà\ Îíî áûëî íàñòîëüêî íåñåðüåçíî= ÷òî íè îäíà ðîññèéñêàÿ ãàçåòà åãî íå èñïîëüçîâàëà\ Âî âðåìåíà Øåâàðäíàäçå ãðóçèíñêèå æóðíàëèñòû îãóëüíî ðóãàëè âñåõ= â
òîì ÷èñëå è ìåíÿ= ïîýòîìó ÿ íå
îáðàùàë âíèìàíèÿ íà èõ ñòàòüè\
Íî êîãäà ÷åðåç ãîä ïîñëå ïðèõîäà
íîâîé âëàñòè ñòàòüè â ìîé àäðåñ
âîçîáíîâèëèñü= ÿ âïåðâûå îòðåàãèðîâàë íà íèõ| â íîÿáðå ïðîøëîãî
ãîäà ïîðó÷èë ñâîèì ñëóæáàì ðàçîáðàòüñÿ ñ õîçÿåâàìè èíòåðíåòñàéòà= íà êîòîðîì áûëî ðàçìåùåíî
ýòî äîñüå\ È âëàäåëüöû ïåðâîèñòî÷íèêà - Ôåäåðàëüíîãî àãåíòñòâà ðàññëåäîâàíèé - èçúÿëè äîñüå è ïðèíåñëè ñâîè èçâèíåíèÿ\
- Òî åñòü âñå= ÷òî òàì íàïèñàíî=
íåïðàâäà~
- Ãëàâíàÿ “ñåíñàöèÿ” òîãî äîñüå ýòî òî= ÷òî ÿ ÿêîáû áûë ñâÿçàí ñ
Îòàðè Êâàíòðèøâèëè= ìû âìåñòå
çàíèìàëèñü ôàëüøèâûìè àâèçî è
ïðî÷\ Ýòî ïîëíûé áðåä\ Êîãäà â íà÷àëå 90-õ áîëüøèíñòâî áàíêîâ=
âêëþ÷àÿ ãîñóäàðñòâåííûå= áûëè
ïîðàæåíû ôàëüøèâûìè àâèçî= ñ
ïîìîùüþ êîòîðûõ èç áþäæåòà
áûëè óêðàäåíû äåñÿòêè ìèëëèàðäîâ äîëëàðîâ= ÿ ïðèëîæèë ãèãàíòñêèå óñèëèÿ= ÷òîáû ÐÊ ïðîòèâîñòîÿë çàêàç÷èêàì àôåð= è îí îêàçàëñÿ åäèíñòâåííûì áàíêîì= êîòîðûé íå ïðîïóñòèë ó ñåáÿ íè îäíîãî
àâèçî\
Òàêîé æå áðåä è îáúåäèíåíèå â
åäèíîå ñîîáùåñòâî ìåíÿ= Êâàíòðèøâèëè= Áåíäóêèäçå= Ìàãàðàäçå=
Ñåëèàøâèëè\ ß íå áûë çíàêîì íè
ñ êåì èç íèõ\ Ãðóçèíñêèå æóðíàëèñòû= êîòîðûì äî ñèõ ïîð íå äàåò
ïîêîÿ ìîÿ ìíèìàÿ ñâÿçü ñ Êâàíòðèøâèëè= ìîãëè áû ïðîâåñòè íåñëîæíîå æóðíàëèñòñêîå ðàññëåäîâàíèå= íà÷àòü ñ î÷åíü èçâåñòíûõ
çíàêîìûõ òîãî æå Êâàíòðèøâèëè\
Íå ïðîáëåìà íàéòè è â Ãðóçèè= è
â Ðîññèè ðîäñòâåííèêîâ= äðóçåé
Êâàíòðèøâèëè= ñîòðóäíèêîâ ÐÊ\ È
ïóñêàé íàéäóò õîòÿ áû îäíîãî ñâèäåòåëÿ èëè äîêàçàòåëüñòâî= ÷òî ó
ìåíÿ èëè ìîèõ ñòðóêòóð ñ Êâàíòðèøâèëè áûëî õîòü ìàëåéøåå ñîïðèêîñíîâåíèå! Åñòü è òàêèå ãðóçèíñêèå æóðíàëèñòû= êîòîðûå= ðàññêàçûâàÿ ïðî ìåíÿ= óïîòðåáëÿþò
âûðàæåíèå “íåêòî Èâàíèøâèëè”=
äðóãèå ïèøóò= ÷òî “îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî” ÿ îêîí÷èë ÒÃÓ= òðåòüè ïîä
ìîåé ôàìèëèåé ïå÷àòàþò ÷óæèå
ôîòîãðàôèè\ Èíûå íàçûâàþò “ïóáëè÷íûì äîìîì” íîâûé áèçíåñ-öåíòð= êîòîðûé ÿ ñòðîþ â Òáèëèñè\
×òî èõ âñåõ îáúåäèíÿåò~ ßêîáû
ñòðàøíîå âîçìóùåíèå= ÷òî îíè íå
ìîãóò äîáûòü èíôîðìàöèþ\ Íî ýòî
æå ëóêàâñòâî\ Ïðî ãðóçèíà= ðîäèâøåãîñÿ â Ãðóçèè= èìåþùåãî ðîäèòåëåé= êó÷ó ðîäñòâåííèêîâ è äðóçåé= â Ãðóçèè î÷åíü áûñòðî ìîæíî
óçíàòü àáñîëþòíî âñþ èíôîðìàöèþ\ ß íå îáðàùàëñÿ â ñóä ñ
èñêàìè î çàùèòå ÷åñòè è äîñòîèíñòâà= ïîòîìó ÷òî íèêîãäà èõ íå
òåðÿë= æèë ïî ñîâåñòè\
“ß ÕÎÒÅË ÂÛÏÓÑÊÀÒÜ
ÀÐÌÈÐÎÂÀÍÍÛÅ
ØËÀÍÃÈ”
- Êàêîå ó âàñ ãðàæäàíñòâî~
- Ðîññèéñêîå è ãðóçèíñêîå\
- Ãäå âû æèâåòå ñåé÷àñ~
- ß ñîñêó÷èëñÿ ïî Ãðóçèè è ãîä
íàçàä ñ ñåìüåé ïåðååõàë æèòü â
ñåëî= â êîòîðîì ïðîøëî ìîå äåòñòâî\ Ñåìüÿ äëÿ ìåíÿ âñåãäà íà
ïåðâîì ìåñòå= ìîé ïàïà íåäàâíî
óìåð= ìàìà â âîçðàñòå= çàõîòåëîñü
ïîæèòü ðÿäîì ñ íåé\ Ïîñòðîèë íîâûé äîì ðÿäîì ñ òåì= â êîòîðîì
æèë ñ ðîäèòåëÿìè= äóìàþ= ÷òî ïîñåëèëèñü òóò íàäîëãî\
- Ðàññêàæèòå= ÷åì âû çàíèìàëèñü äî òîãî= êàê îðãàíèçîâàëè
“Ðîñêðåä”\
- ß ðîäèëñÿ â ñåëå ×îðâèëà= íå-
äàëåêî îò ã\ ×èàòóðà\ Îòåö ðàáîòàë
øàõòåðîì íà êîìáèíàòå “×èàòóðìàðãàíåö”= êîòîðûé= êñòàòè= íåäàâíî êóïèë ðîññèéñêèé “Åâðàçõîëäèíã”\ Ïîñëå øêîëû ÿ óåõàë â Òáèëèñè - ó÷èëñÿ íà èíæåíåðíî-ýêîíîìè÷åñêîì ôàêóëüòåòå Òáèëèññêîãî ãîñóíèâåðñèòåòà= îäíîâðåìåííî ðàáîòàë íà Ëèòåéíî-ìåõàíè÷åñêîì çàâîäå èì\ Êàìî - óáîðùèêîì= ïîäñîáíûì ðàáî÷èì= à ïîòîì øëèôîâàëüùèêîì\ Óíèâåðñèòåò îêîí÷èë ñ îòëè÷èåì è îñòàëñÿ
ðàáîòàòü íà òîì æå çàâîäå - óæå
ñòàðøèì èíæåíåðîì= à çàòåì - íà÷àëüíèêîì ëàáîðàòîðèè ïî íàó÷íîé îðãàíèçàöèè òðóäà\  1982 ã\
óåõàë â Ìîñêâó â àñïèðàíòóðó
ÍÈÈ òðóäà= à ÷åðåç íåñêîëüêî ëåò=
çàùèòèâøèñü ïî ñïåöèàëüíîñòè
“íàó÷íàÿ îðãàíèçàöèÿ è ýêîíîìèêà
òðóäà”= âåðíóëñÿ â Òáèëèñè â ìåñòíîå îòäåëåíèå ÍÈÈ\ À âñêîðå
îðãàíèçîâàë ñâîé ïåðâûé áèçíåñ\
- Êàê ïðèøëà èäåÿ çàíÿòüñÿ áèçíåñîì~
- ×òî òàêîå ñòàðøèé íàó÷íûé ñîòðóäíèê â êîíöå 80-õ~ Íè èíòåðåñíîé ðàáîòû= íè ïåðñïåêòèâ\ Ó
ìåíÿ íå áûëî íè êâàðòèðû= íè ñåìüè= æèë â îáùåæèòèè Ëèòåéíîìåõàíè÷åñêîãî çàâîäà\ Êîíå÷íî= òîãäà è â ìûñëÿõ íå áûëî= ÷òî ñîçäàì
áàíê= ñòàíó ìèëëèàðäåðîì= ïðîñòî
áûëî æåëàíèå íà÷àòü çàðàáàòûâàòü
äåíüãè\ Ðåøèë âûïóñêàòü àðìèðîâàííûå øëàíãè= â òå âðåìåíà îíè
áûëè â äåôèöèòå\ Çàðåãèñòðèðîâàë
êîîïåðàòèâ= ó çàâîäà èì\ Êàìî àðåíäîâàë ïîìåùåíèå è íà÷àë ïîäãîòîâêó ê ïðîèçâîäñòâó\ Ïî âå÷åðàì
ëè÷íî âûòà÷èâàë îáîðóäîâàíèå= íî
äî âûïóñêà øëàíãîâ äåëî íå äîøëî íà÷àë òîðãîâàòü êîìïüþòåðàìè\
- Ïî÷åìó èìåííî êîìïüþòåðàìè~
- ß àíàëèçèðîâàë= íà òîðãîâëå
÷åì ìîæíî ïðîäâèíóòüñÿ= è ïðèøåë ê âûâîäó= ÷òî çà êîìïüþòåðàìè
áóäóùåå\ Ñïðîñ íà íèõ áûë= à âîò
íàéòè èõ áûëî ïðîáëåìîé\
ß áûë çíàêîì ñ òáèëèññêèìè
åâðåÿìè= óåõàâøèìè çà ãðàíèöó= ñîçâîíèëñÿ ñ íèìè= îíè áûëè ðàäû
íà÷àòü áèçíåñ\ Íà÷àëè îòïðàâëÿòü
êîìïüþòåðû ìíå= à ïåðâûì ïîêóïàòåëåì ñòàëà Àêàäåìèÿ íàóê Ãðóçèè\ Íî ãðóçèíñêîé ïðîêóðàòóðå íå
ïîíðàâèëàñü ìîÿ àêòèâíîñòü= òî=
÷òî òîëüêî çà ïåðâóþ ñäåëêó íà
ñ÷åòà ìîåãî êîîïåðàòèâà ïðèøëî
áîëüøå 1 ìëí ðóá\= îíè àðåñòîâàëè
ñ÷åòà\ ß ïîíÿë= ÷òî è äàëüøå ìíå
áóäóò ñòàâèòü ïàëêè â êîëåñà= è ðåøèë ïåðåáðàòüñÿ â Ìîñêâó\ Åùå â
àñïèðàíòóðå ïîçíàêîìèëñÿ ñ Âèòàëèåì Ìàëêèíûì= îí òîãäà áûë
àñïèðàíòîì Ìîñêîâñêîãî æåëåçíîäîðîæíîãî èíñòèòóòà\ ß áûë ðåïåòèòîðîì îäíîãî ñòóäåíòà ïî ìàòåìàòèêå= à Âèòàëèé - ïî ôèçèêå\
Êîãäà ÿ âåðíóëñÿ â Ìîñêâó=
Ìàëêèí óæå çàíèìàëñÿ áèçíåñîì ïåðåïðîäàâàë ÷òî-òî= ïûòàëñÿ êàôå
îòêðûâàòü= íî ÿ åìó ïðåäëîæèë áîëåå îðãàíèçîâàííûé áèçíåñ - òîðãîâëþ êîìïüþòåðàìè\
Ó Ìàëêèíà áûëè òîâàðèùè èç
æåëåçíîäîðîæíîãî èíñòèòóòà - äîöåíòû Ñåðãåé Ìîñèí è Àëåêñàíäð
Áðÿíöåâ\ Îíè ñòðîèëè òåïëèöû â
Íàðî-Ôîìèíñêå= ó íèõ áûë êîîïåðàòèâ “Àãðîïðîãðåññ”\ ×òîáû íå òå-
ðÿòü âðåìåíè íà ðåãèñòðàöèþ íîâîãî êîîïåðàòèâà= ñòàëè òîðãîâàòü
÷åðåç “Àãðîïðîãðåññ”= äîëè ó âñåõ
áûëè ðàâíûå\ Ýòî áûë 1988 ã\ Ìû
ñíèìàëè êîìíàòó â òðåõêîìíàòíîé
êâàðòèðå íà 5-ì ýòàæå áåç ëèôòà —
òàì è îôèñ= è ñêëàä áûëè= áèçíåñ
øåë ïîëíûì õîäîì\ Òîãäà áèçíåñ
ðàáîòàë ïî-äðóãîìó| ìíîãîå äåëàëîñü íà äîâåðèè= áîëüøèå ñóììû
ïåðå÷èñëÿëè â êà÷åñòâå ïðåäîïëàòû\ Ïîòîì ñòàëè è êñåðîêñàìè=
ìàãíèòîôîíàìè= òåëåôîíàìè òîðãîâàòü\
Ìîñêâà â òå âðåìåíà êèøåëà
èíîñòðàíöàìè= êîòîðûå ïðåäëàãàëè
ðàçíûé òîâàð= êî ìíå îíè ïðèõîäèëè òîëïàìè= íî ÿ âèäåë= ÷òî ïî÷òè âñå îíè ìîøåííèêè\ È ìû
ñàìè ïîåõàëè çà ãðàíèöó èñêàòü ïàðòíåðîâ\ Óçíàëè= ÷òî â Ïàðèæå ïðîõîäèò âûñòàâêà âûñîêîòåõíîëîãè÷íîé ïðîäóêöèè\ Òàì ïîçíàêîìèëèñü ñ îäíîé ãîíêîíãñêîé ôèðìîé=
ïîåõàëè ê íèì - óâåðÿþ= ìû áûëè
ïåðâûìè ðóññêèìè áèçíåñìåíàìè=
êîòîðûå ïðèåõàëè â Ãîíêîíã\
Çàêëþ÷èëè ñ íèìè íàø ïåðâûé
êðóïíûé êîíòðàêò\ Âñþ ýòó òåõíèêó äåëàëè â Êèòàå= è ìû ðèñêíóëè ïîéòè åùå äàëüøå| êóïèëè
â Êèòàå ôàáðèêó ïî ïðîèçâîäñòâó
êíîïî÷íûõ òåëåôîíîâ è êàññåòíûõ
ìàãíèòîôîíîâ\ Â 1990 ã\ íàøà êîìïàíèÿ áûëà îäíîé èç êðóïíåéøèõ
â ñòðàíå ïî ïðîäàæå ýëåêòðîííîé
òåõíèêè= íî ìíîãèå óæå ïîíÿëè= ÷òî
ýòî ïðèáûëüíûé áèçíåñ= è ìû ðåøèëè çàíÿòüñÿ ÷åì-òî äðóãèì\ Òîãäà
êàê ðàç ñòàëè ïîÿâëÿòüñÿ ïåðâûå
÷àñòíûå áàíêè= â 1990 ã\ ìû çàðåãèñòðèðîâàëè “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò”\
- À áûë ó âàñ äðóãîé áèçíåñ=
êðîìå òîðãîâëè ýëåêòðîíèêîé~
Êàêîé êàïèòàë âû íàêîïèëè ê ìîìåíòó ñîçäàíèÿ áàíêà~
- Äðóãîãî áèçíåñà íå áûëî\ À ê
ìîìåíòó îòêðûòèÿ “Ðîññèéñêîãî
êðåäèòà” ìû íàêîïèëè $100 000120 000= ýòî áûëè áîëüøèå äåíüãè=
íà íèõ ìîæíî áûëî îòêðûòü íåñêîëüêî áàíêîâ\ Áðÿíöåâ ñ íàìè íå
ïîøåë= ñêàçàë= ÷òî óæå è áåç òîãî
áîãàòûé ÷åëîâåê= ïðîäîëæèë ñòðîèòü òåïëèöû\ ß= Ìàëêèí è Ìîñèí
ïîëó÷èëè ðàâíûå äîëè\ Ïîòîì ÿ âûêóïèë äîëþ Ìîñèíà\ Òàêèì îáðàçîì= ìíå â áàíêå ïðèíàäëåæàëî
67%= Ìàëêèíó - 33%\
- À ñåé÷àñ êàêàÿ äîëÿ ó Ìàëêèíà
â áàíêàõ è ïðîìûøëåííûõ ïðåäïðèÿòèÿõ~
- Îí ñîõðàíèë ñâîè äîëè â îáîèõ
áàíêàõ= à ìèíîðèòàðíûå ïàêåòû â
íåêîòîðûõ ïðîìûøëåííûõ ïðåäïðèÿòèÿõ= êîòîðûå ó íåãî áûëè= ÿ
íåäàâíî ó íåãî âûêóïèë\
“ÏÐÎÑÒÎ ÌÛ ÄÅËÀËÈ ÒÎ=
XÅÃÎ ÍÅ ÄÅËÀËÈ ÄÐÓÃÈÅ”
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çàíèìàòüñÿ áàíêîâñêèì áèçíåñîì=
ïî÷åìó “Ðîññèéñêîìó êðåäèòó”
óäàëîñü âûáèòüñÿ â ëèäåðû~
- Ïåðâûé îôèñ áàíêà áûë â çäàíèè äåòñêîãî ñàäà= à ðàáîòàëè â íåì
ïî 24 ÷àñà â ñóòêè\ Ïîêà â áàíêå
áûëî äî 100 ÷åëîâåê= ëþáîå ìåëü÷àéøåå ðåøåíèå ÿ ïðèíèìàë ñàì\
Òîãäà êðåäèòû âûäàâàëèñü áåç âñÿ-
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vt-!%
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êîãî îáåñïå÷åíèÿ= ìîãëî áûòü ìíîãî
íåâîçâðàòîâ= ïðèõîäèëîñü ëè÷íî
ðåøàòü= êîìó äàâàòü êðåäèò= à êîìó
íåò\ Ïðîñòî ìû äåëàëè òî= ÷åãî íå
äåëàëè äðóãèå\ Áûëè ïåðâûìè ïî
îáúåìàì ïðîäàæ íàëè÷íîé âàëþòû|
ìû= íàïðèìåð= ñïåöèàëüíî çàêàçûâàëè íîâûå äîëëàðîâûå êóïþðû=
ñîçäàâàëè îïòîâûå öåíòðû ðîçíè÷íîé ïðîäàæè âàëþòû\
À âîîáùå ìíîãîå òîãäà ðåøèëà
èíòóèöèÿ\ ß ñðàçó ïî÷óâñòâîâàë=
÷òî íàäî äåëàòü ñòàâêó íà ôèëèàëüíóþ ñåòü\ Äëÿ ýòîãî íàäî áûëî
ðåøèòü äâå êëþ÷åâûå ïðîáëåìû íàéòè ïîìåùåíèÿ è êàäðû\ Îäíàæäû âñþ íî÷ü äóìàë îá ýòîì= à
óòðîì áûëî ãîòîâîå ðåøåíèå\ Ìû
ïðèõîäèëè ê äèðåêòîðàì ïðåäïðèÿòèé= èíñòèòóòîâ è äîãîâàðèâàëèñü - îíè íàì âûäåëÿëè ïîìåùåíèÿ= à ìû äåëàëè ýòè îðãàíèçàöèè
ïàéùèêàìè áàíêà= äàâàëè ïðîöåíòà ïî äâà= îíè ïîòîì ñòàíîâèëèñü
íàøèìè êëèåíòàìè\ ß ñîçäàë ïåðâûé â Ðîññèè áàíêîâñêèé êîëëåäæ= êîòîðûé ãîòîâèë íàì ñîòðóäíèêîâ= ïåðâûå ëåêöèè ÷èòàë òàì
ëè÷íî\ Íî ãëàâíîå= ÷åì ÿ ãîðæóñü= â áàíêå áûë ñîçäàí óíèêàëüíûé êîðïîðàòèâíûé äóõ= áîëüøèíñòâî ñîòðóäíèêîâ ðàáîòàþò äî ñèõ ïîð\
- Âû ïåðèîäè÷åñêè óåçæàëè èç
ñòðàíû= à ïîñëåäíèå ïîëòîðà ãîäà
ïîñòîÿííî æèâåòå â Ãðóçèè\ Êàê
âû óïðàâëÿåòå áèçíåñîì= êàêèå âîïðîñû ðåøàåòå ëè÷íî~
- Ñ ìîìåíòà ñîçäàíèÿ “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà” è ïî ñåé äåíü ÿ è
àêöèîíåð= è òîï-ìåíåäæåð â îäíîì
ëèöå= â Ðîññèè ïî-äðóãîìó íåëüçÿ\
Ó÷ðåäèâ áàíê= ïåðâûå ãîäà ÷åòûðå
ÿ ëè÷íî êîíòðîëèðîâàë âñå= ÷òî â
íåì ïðîèñõîäèëî\ Êîãäà áèçíåñ ðàçðîññÿ= ÿ ñòàë âíåäðÿòü êîëëåãèàëüíîå óïðàâëåíèå\ Ñåé÷àñ ÿ áîëüøå êîíöåíòðèðóþñü íà ðåøåíèè
ñòðàòåãè÷åñêèõ âîïðîñîâ= íî çíàþ
âñå= ÷òî äåëàåòñÿ ïî âñåì íàïðàâëåíèÿì áèçíåñà\ Äàæå ñåé÷àñ= ãäå
áû ÿ íè íàõîäèëñÿ= ÿ êàæäûé äåíü
ìèíèìóì ÷åòûðå ÷àñà ïîñâÿùàþ
ðåøåíèþ ðàáî÷èõ âîïðîñîâ\
- À êàêèå æå ôóíêöèè áûëè ó
Ìàëêèíà~
- Îí âûïîëíÿë ïðåäñòàâèòåëüñêèå ôóíêöèè| ïðåäñòàâëÿë áàíê
â ãîññòðóêòóðàõ= çàìåùàë ìåíÿ íà
ðàçíûõ ôîðìàëüíûõ âñòðå÷àõ= íåôîðìàëüíûõ òóñîâêàõ\ Îí íèêîãäà
íå ðåøàë= êàêîå íàïðàâëåíèå áèçíåñà ôîðñèðîâàííî ðàçâèâàòü= êàêîå ñâîðà÷èâàòü= ÷òî ïîêóïàòü= à
÷òî ïðîäàâàòü= êàê ïîäáèðàòü êàäðû è êàê èìè óïðàâëÿòü\ Ýòî áûëî
çà ìíîé= Âèòàëèé ñàì çíàë= ÷òî íåêîìïåòåíòåí â ýòèõ âîïðîñàõ\
Ìû âìåñòå íà÷èíàëè áèçíåñ= òîãäà íèêòî íå çíàë= íà ÷òî îí ñïîñîáåí\ Âèòàëèé - ìîé äðóã= îí íèêîãäà ìåíÿ íå ïðåäàâàë= ïîýòîìó îí
îñòàåòñÿ ìîèì ïàðòíåðîì= à ÿ ðàä=
÷òî ñäåëàë äðóãà áîãàòûì ÷åëîâåêîì\
- Âàñèëèé Àíèñèìîâ çàíèìàë
ïîñò âèöå-ïðåçèäåíòà “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà”= à äîëÿ â áàíêå ó íåãî
áûëà~
- Ïðèíàäëåæàùèå Àíèñèìîâó çàâîäû áûëè êðóïíûìè êëèåíòàìè
áàíêà= íî åãî ñîáñòâåííèêîì Àíèñèìîâ íèêîãäà íå áûë\ Ó ìåíÿ áûëè
ïàðòíåðû â ïðîìûøëåííûõ ïðåäïðèÿòèÿõ= à â áàíêå= åñëè íå ñ÷èòàòü òåõ= êòî ïîëó÷èë äîëè â îáìåí
íà ïîìåùåíèÿ= ñîâëàäåëüöåì áûë
òîëüêî Ìàëêèí\ Êàæäûé êðóïíûé
êëèåíò ïðîñèëñÿ â ïàéùèêè= íî ÿ
âñåì îòêàçûâàë\ ß âîîáùå ñòàðàþñü èçáåãàòü ïàðòíåðñòâà\ Ïàðòíåð
äëÿ ìåíÿ - ýòî î÷åíü ñåðüåçíî= ê
òîìó æå åñòü ðèñê= ÷òî ïàðòíåð ìîæåò ïîäâåñòè\
-  òå âðåìåíà= êîãäà âû íà÷èíàëè áèçíåñ= ëþáàÿ ñòðóêòóðà= çàðàáàòûâàþùàÿ äåíüãè= ïðèâëåêàëà âíèìàíèå áàíäèòîâ\ Âû ñòàëêèâàëèñü ñ òàêèìè ïðîáëåìàìè~
- Ìû ñëèøêîì ðàíî íà÷àëè çàíèìàòüñÿ êîìïüþòåðíûì áèçíåñîì= è ðýêåòèðû ïðîñòî ïðîñïàëè
ýòîò ìîìåíò\ À âîò â áàíêå äåéñòâèòåëüíî ïðèøëîñü ñòîëêíóòüñÿ ñ òàêèìè ïðîáëåìàìè\ Íî ÿ ïðåêðàñíî çíàþ| ñòîèò îäèí ðàç ïîéòè ñ
íèìè [áàíäèòàìè] íà äîãîâîð= ýòî
íàâñåãäà òåáÿ ñ íèìè ñâÿæåò\ ß âûñòîÿë è= êñòàòè= ñ÷èòàþ= ÷òî ìîÿ ãëàâíàÿ çàñëóãà - ÷òî ÿ íå ïóñòèë â
ñâîé áèçíåñ íè îäíîãî èç òåõ= êîãî
ñ÷èòàþò áàíäèòîì\ À ïîçæå ÿ ñòàë
ñîòðóäíè÷àòü ñ ïðàâîîõðàíèòå-
gbhdtkb bynthdbe
ëüíûìè îðãàíàìè\ Â 1993 ã\ íå áåç
ïîìîùè ðóêîâîäèòåëÿ ÐÓÁÎÏ Âëàäèìèðà Ðóøàéëî= êîòîðûé ïîìîã
ìíå íàéòè áðàòà= ïî ìîåé èíèöèàòèâå ïðè ÐÓÁÎÏ áûëà ñîçäàíà
ñòðóêòóðà= êîòîðàÿ ôèíàíñèðîâàëàñü áàíêîì= à âïîñëåäñòâèè è äðóãèìè êðóïíûìè êîììåð÷åñêèìè
ñòðóêòóðàìè\ Åå ñîòðóäíèêè ïðèåçæàëè ïî îäíîìó íàøåìó çâîíêó=
è äîëãîå âðåìÿ ýòà ñòðóêòóðà ýôôåêòèâíî ðàáîòàëà\ À â 1997 ã\ ìû ñòîëêíóëèñü ñ ïðîáëåìîé íåâîçâðàòà
êðåäèòîâ= è= âìåñòî òîãî ÷òîáû ïîìîãàòü íàì= åå ñîòðóäíèêè ñòàëè
áðàòü âçÿòêè îò òåõ= êòî áûë íàì
äîëæåí\ Ïîñëå ýòîãî ÿ ñêàçàë òîãäàøíåìó ãëàâå ýòîé ñòðóêòóðû
Àëåêñàíäðó Êà÷óðó= ÷òî ïðåêðàùàþ ñîòðóäíè÷åñòâî\
- Íî âåäü â òå âðåìåíà íåâîçìîæíî áûëî äåëàòü áèçíåñ= íå èìåÿ
“êðûøè” ñðåäè ÷èíîâíèêîâ èëè
òåõ æå áàíäèòîâ\
- Ýòî áûëî âîçìîæíî= òîëüêî
î÷åíü ñëîæíî\ Íàø áàíê íèêîãäà
íå áûë â ÷èñëå òàê íàçûâàåìûõ áëàòíûõ áàíêîâ\ Ïî êîëè÷åñòâó ïëàòåæåê “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” ïðåâîñõîäèë äàæå Ñáåðáàíê - ýòî ãîâîðèò î òîì= ÷òî ìû äåðæàëèñü íà
ìåëêîé è ñðåäíåé êëèåíòóðå\
Ïîêðîâèòåëüñòâîì ÷èíîâíèêîâ ÿ
òîæå íèêîãäà íå ïîëüçîâàëñÿ\
- Íî îäèí ÷èíîâíèê òî÷íî ïðèíåñ ïîëüçó âàøåìó áàíêó\  ïåðèîä= êîãäà Åâãåíèé Áû÷êîâ âîçãëàâëÿë Ðîñêîìäðàãìåò= “Ðîñêðåäó” óäàëîñü ñòàòü êðóïíûì èãðîêîì íà ðûíêå çîëîòà= à âïîñëåäñòâèè Áû÷êîâ ñòàë âèöå-ïðåçèäåíòîì áàíêà\
- Ñâÿçü Áû÷êîâà ñ áàíêîì ïðîâåðÿëà Ñ÷åòíàÿ ïàëàòà= è îíà íå
íàøëà íèêàêèõ íàðóøåíèé= êîòîðûå îí êàê ÷èíîâíèê äåëàë\ Áû÷êîâ
áûë ïîëåçåí áàíêó òîëüêî òåì= ÷òî
ïðèâåë â íåãî ïàðó êëèåíòîâ\
- “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” è “Ìåòàëëîèíâåñò” âëàäåëè ìíîãèìè ðàçíîïðîôèëüíûìè àêòèâàìè\
Êàêîé âàø áèçíåñ îêàçàëñÿ íàèáîëåå ïðèáûëüíûì~
- Ïî ðåíòàáåëüíîñòè - Ñòîéëåíñêèé ÃÎÊ= ïî îòäà÷å íà âëîæåííûé êàïèòàë - çàâîä “Êàó÷óê”\ Ìû
êóïèëè åãî àêöèè â 1991 ã\ çà
$150 000= à íà åãî ïðîäàæå çàðàáîòàþ ìèíèìóì $500 ìëí - çàâîä â öåíòðå Ìîñêâû èìååò áîëüøóþ òåððèòîðèþ= íà íåé ñêîðî íà÷íåòñÿ
áîëüøîå ñòðîèòåëüñòâî\
- À êîãäà ïî êàêîìó ïðèíöèïó
âû ïîêóïàëè ïðîìûøëåííûå ïðåäïðèÿòèÿ~
- Íà÷àëàñü ïðèâàòèçàöèÿ= ó áàíêà áûëè äåíüãè= ÿ ëè÷íî ïðîñìàòðèâàë ñïèñêè âûñòàâëÿåìûõ íà
ïðîäàæó ïðåäïðèÿòèé= îöåíèâàë
èõ ïîêàçàòåëè= ïåðñïåêòèâû\ Îãðàíè÷åíèå ïðè âûáîðå áûëî îäíî| ÿ
íèêîãäà íå ïðåòåíäîâàë íà àêòèâû=
çà êîòîðûå ìîãëà ðàçâåðíóòüñÿ
êðèìèíàëüíàÿ âîéíà= êîòîðûå ìîãëè ïîäâåðãíóòü ðèñêó ìîþ æèçíü
èëè æèçíü ìîèõ ñîòðóäíèêîâ\ Ïîýòîìó áàíê íå ó÷àñòâîâàë â ïîêóïêå íåôòÿíûõ= àëþìèíèåâûõ= ñòàëåëèòåéíûõ ïðåäïðèÿòèé\
- “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” ó÷àñòâîâàë âî ìíîãèõ çàëîãîâûõ àóêöèîíàõ= íî íèãäå íå îäåðæàë ïîáåäó\
Ïî÷åìó~
- Áàíê ïîäàâàë çàÿâêè íà ó÷àñòèå â çàëîãîâûõ àóêöèîíàõ íå äëÿ
òîãî= ÷òîáû ïîëó÷èòü êîíòðîëü íàä
ïðîäàâàåìûìè àêòèâàìè= à ÷òîáû
ñîðâàòü àóêöèîíû\ Åñëè áû ìû âûèãðàëè= òî âåðíóëè áû àêöèè ãîñóäàðñòâó\ Òîãäà êîììóíèñòû àòàêîâàëè ïðèâàòèçàöèþ= çàëîãîâûå àóêöèîíû äàâàëè èì ìîùíûé êîçûðü=
áûë ðèñê= ÷òî îíè âîîáùå ñìîãóò
ñîðâàòü âñþ ïðèâàòèçàöèþ\ Âåäü
ïðèâàòèçàöèîííûå çàêîíû ïèñàëèñü íàñêîðî= îíè áûëè íåñîâåðøåííû= à ïðîäàæà ÷åðåç çàëîãîâûå àóêöèîíû è âîâñå áûëà íåçàêîííà\
- Òî åñòü âû ñïàñàëè ïðèâàòèçàöèþ~
- Íå òîëüêî\ Çàëîãîâûå àóêöèîíû
íàðóøàëè ñëîæèâøèéñÿ íà ðûíêå
áàëàíñ ñèë= èõ ïîáåäèòåëè íåçàêîííî ïîëó÷àëè êîíêóðåíòíîå ïðåèìóùåñòâî ïåðåäî ìíîé\ Åñòåñòâåííî= ÿ õîòåë ýòîìó ïîìåøàòü\ À ïîäíèìàë ÿ øóìèõó= ÷òîáû äîíåñòè
ñâîþ ïîçèöèþ äî ïðàâèòåëüñòâà=
ïðåçèäåíòà\ Íî òîëüêî íàæèë ñåáå
ñåðüåçíûõ âðàãîâ\ Â òî âðåìÿ ïðîõîäèëè âûáîðû â Ãîñäóìó= [äâèæåíèå] ÍÄÐ [“Íàø äîì - Ðîññèÿ”]=
ëèäåðîì êîòîðîãî áûë ïðåìüåð
[Âèêòîð] ×åðíîìûðäèí= ïðîâàëèëîñü\ Ýòî âûçâàëî êðèòèêó
Åëüöèíà= à îäèí èç ÷ëåíîâ òîãäàøíåãî êàáèíåòà ìèíèñòðîâ ðàññêàçûâàë ìíå= ÷òî= îïðàâäûâàÿñü=
×åðíîìûðäèí íàçâàë ïðè÷èíîé
íåóäà÷è íà âûáîðàõ íàøè âûñòóïëåíèÿ ïðîòèâ çàëîãîâûõ àóêöèîíîâ
è øóì= êîòîðûé ìû ïîäíÿëè â
ÑÌÈ\ È õîòÿ ÿ íå ìîãó óòâåðæäàòü=
÷òî áûëî ïðÿìîå óêàçàíèå ×åðíîìûðäèíà= ó ìåíÿ ñîõðàíèëèñü âñå
äîêóìåíòû= ïîäòâåðæäàþùèå= ÷òî
áóêâàëüíî êàæäàÿ êîíòðîëüíàÿ
ñòðóêòóðà= ñóùåñòâîâàâøàÿ òîãäà â
Ðîññèè= â òå÷åíèå íåäåëè íàíåñëà
íàì âèçèò| âàëþòíûé êîíòðîëü= ðàéîííàÿ è ãîðîäñêàÿ íàëîãîâûå
èíñïåêöèè= íàëîãîâàÿ ïîëèöèÿ= ôèíàíñîâûé êîíòðîëü= Öåíòðàëüíûé
áàíê\ È ïðîèçîøëî ýòî ñðàçó ïîñëå âûáîðîâ\ Íàèáîëüøóþ àêòèâíîñòü ïðîÿâëÿëà íàëîãîâàÿ ïîëèöèÿ îíà ïðîâåðÿëà áàíê áîëüøå ãîäà=
íî íèêàêèõ íàðóøåíèé íå îáíàðóæèëà\ Òîãäà íàëîãîâàÿ ïîëèöèÿ
íà÷àëà äàâèòü íà ìåæäóíàðîäíîãî
àóäèòîðà Arthur Andersen= âûáèâàòü èç íèõ äîêóìåíòû íà áàíê= â
ïðîòèâíîì ñëó÷àå óãðîæàÿ çàïðåòèòü ðàáîòàòü â Ðîññèè\ ß áðîñèëñÿ çâîíèòü òîãäàøíåìó íà÷àëüíèêó íàëîãîâîé ïîëèöèè
[Ñåðãåþ] Àëìàçîâó\ Ìû ñ íèì
âñòðåòèëèñü\ Íèêîãäà íå çàáóäó òîò
ðàçãîâîð\ ß ïûòàëñÿ ïîíÿòü= ïî÷åìó
åãî ñîòðóäíèêè õóëèãàíÿò= âåäü
ðñòâó\ Óâåðÿþ= âû íå íàéäåòå äðóãîãî ñëó÷àÿ äîáðîâîëüíîãî âîçâðàòà
àêöèé â ãîññîáñòâåííîñòü\ Òîëüêî
÷åðåç ïîëòîðà ãîäà ìû ñìîãëè çàíîâî âûêóïèòü àêöèè ÃÎÊà íà äåíåæíîì àóêöèîíå\ Ó ìåíÿ âîîáùå
áûëà äðóãàÿ òàêòèêà| ÿ ïîêóïàë
àêòèâû= çà êîòîðûå íå áûëî áîðüáû=
êîòîðûå áûëè íåäîîöåíåíû è äàæå
óáûòî÷íû\ Âñå áîðîëèñü çà ñòàëåëèòåéíûå ïðåäïðèÿòèÿ= à ïîñòàâùèêè ñûðüÿ äëÿ íèõ íèêîãî íå èíòåðåñîâàëè; ÿ òîãäà êóïèë Ìèõàéëîâñêèé= Ñòîéëåíñêèé= Ëåáåäèíñêèé
ãîðíî-îáîãàòèòåëüíûå êîìáèíàòû\
- Ïî ðåíòàáåëüíîñòè= êîòîðàÿ
äîõîäèò äî 500%= ÃÎÊè ñåé÷àñ
ïðåâîñõîäÿò äàæå ñòàëåëèòåéíûå
ïðåäïðèÿòèÿ\
- Òàêàÿ ðåíòàáåëüíîñòü äåéñòâèòåëüíî áûëà= íî âûñîêóþ ïðèáûëü
ÃÎÊè ñòàëè ïðèíîñèòü òîëüêî ïîñëåäíèå òðè-÷åòûðå ãîäà\ À äî ýòîãî
ïÿòü-øåñòü ëåò èõ ïðèõîäèëîñü
ñóáñèäèðîâàòü= äàæå çàðïëàòó âîçèòü ñîòðóäíèêàì ýòèõ êîìáèíàòîâ
èç Ìîñêâû\ Ìåòàëëóðãè äèêòîâàëè
êîìáèíàòàì= ïî êàêîé öåíå îíè áóäóò çàêóïàòü ñûðüå= è îáû÷íî ïîêóïàëè íèæå ñåáåñòîèìîñòè\ Ïåðåëîìèòü ñèòóàöèþ ìíå ñòîèëî áîëüøèõ óñèëèé| ïî ìîåé èíèöèàòèâå
ðîññèéñêèå ÃÎÊè è ÑîêîëîâñêîÑàðáàéñêîå ÃÏÎ [Êàçàõñòàí] çàêëþ÷èëè êàðòåëüíîå ñîãëàøåíèå è
ñîêðàòèëè îáúåìû ïðîèçâîäñòâà= ò\
å\ óáðàëè ñ ðûíêà ëèøíåå ñûðüå=
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áàíê èì è òàê âñå äîêóìåíòû äàåò=
à îí ìíå îòâåòèë| “Âñå ó âàñ áóäåò
íîðìàëüíî= òîëüêî òû ìíå ñêàæè=
êàê òû ïîêóïàåøü ìîèõ ñîòðóäíèêîâ~ ß òðåòèé ðàç ìåíÿþ ëó÷øèõ
ñâîèõ ëþäåé= êîòîðûå òåáÿ ïðîâåðÿþò= à îíè âñå ðàâíî íå ìîãóò ïîëó÷èòü íèêàêèõ ðåçóëüòàòîâ”\ ß
óäèâèëñÿ= âíà÷àëå íå ïîíÿë\ Îí ïîÿñíèë| “Êàê òû èõ îõìóðÿåøü~ Êàê
òû ñ íèìè äîãîâàðèâàåøüñÿ~” ß
îòâåòèë| “Äà Áîæå óïàñè! ß ñ íàëîãîâîé ïîëèöèåé íå ðàçãîâàðèâàë
íè ðàçó è íå ñîáèðàþñü\ ß ïîíèìàþ= ÷òî âàì âñå ýòî çàêàçàëè!” Îí=
êîíå÷íî= íå ïðèçíàëñÿ= ÷òî ïîëó÷èë çàêàç\ Òàê ìû è ðàññòàëèñü íè
ñ ÷åì\
- Òðóäíî ïîâåðèòü= ÷òî âû íå
ó÷àñòâîâàëè â ñàìûõ êðóïíûõ
ïðèâàòèçàöèîííûõ ñäåëêàõ èç
èäåéíûõ ñîîáðàæåíèé~!
- Òåì íå ìåíåå ýòî òàê\ Íàïðèìåð= êîãäà ÷åðåç ãîä ïîñëå çàëîãîâûõ àóêöèîíîâ ïðîäàâàëñÿ ãîñïàêåò ÒÍÊ= íà ïîëîâèíó ïàêåòà ïðåòåíäîâàëè Ìèõàèë Ôðèäìàí è
Ãåðìàí Õàí= à âòîðóþ ïîëîâèíó
Âèêòîð Âåêñåëüáåðã ïðåäëîæèë ìíå
êóïèòü ñ íèì ñîâìåñòíî\ ß ñîãëàñèëñÿ= ìû ñ Âèêòîðîì áîëåå äâóõ
ìåñÿöåâ ãîòîâèëèñü ê àóêöèîíó= íî
íåîæèäàííî ó íåãî íàøëèñü ïðîòèâíèêè\ Áîëüøîé øóì ïî ïîâîäó
åãî íåïðàâîìåðíîñòè ïîäíÿë ãåíäèðåêòîð ÒÍÊ Âèêòîð Ïàëèé\ È
â ñàìûé ïîñëåäíèé ìîìåíò ÿ îòêàçàëñÿ îò ó÷àñòèÿ â àóêöèîíå\
- Âåêñåëüáåðã è “Àëüôà-ãðóïï”
çàðàáîòàëè ïîòîì íà ÒÍÊ ìíîãî
äåíåã\ Íå æàëååòå= ÷òî îòêàçàëèñü
îò ïîêóïêè~
- ß íå ìîã ó÷àñòâîâàòü â ñäåëêå=
êîòîðàÿ âûçûâàåò ó ìåíÿ õîòÿ áû
ìàëåéøèå ñîìíåíèÿ â åå çàêîííîñòè\ Ïðèâåäó åùå ïðèìåð| ìû íà
èíâåñòêîíêóðñå êóïèëè 20% àêöèé
Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà\ Íî âñêîðå â
èíâåñòïðîãðàììå áûëè îáíàðóæåíû ïðîñ÷åòû= à çàêîíîäàòåëüñòâî
íå ïîçâîëÿëî åå ìåíÿòü\ Ñàìîâîëüíî ìû ìåíÿòü ïðîãðàììó íå
ñòàëè è âåðíóëè àêöèè ãîñóäà-
âïàëè â çàâèñèìîñòü îò ÃÎÊîâ\
- Âû ãîâîðèòå= ÷òî íèêîãäà íå
áûëè òàì= ãäå åñòü ðèñê= à ñàìè â
1997 ã\ îêàçàëèñü â îäíîé èç ñàìûõ ãîðÿ÷èõ òî÷åê — íà Êðàñíîÿðñêîì àëþìèíèåâîì çàâîäå
(ÊðÀÇ)\
- Àêöèè ÊðÀÇà ÿ ïîêóïàë íà âòîðè÷íîì ðûíêå= ïðè÷åì áûë äàëåêî
íå ñàìûì êðóïíûì àêöèîíåðîì çàâîäà\ Òàê ïîëó÷èëîñü= ÷òî â Êðàñíîÿðñêå ÿ íà÷àë ðàáîòàòü çàäîëãî
äî ïðèõîäà íà ÊðÀÇ\ Åùå â 1992 ã\
áàíê ïðèîáðåë áîëåå 30% àêöèé
Êðàñíîÿðñêîãî ìåòàëëóðãè÷åñêîãî
çàâîäà\ Çàâîä íàõîäèòñÿ ÷åðåç çàáîð îò ÊðÀÇà= äåëàåò ïðîäóêöèþ
èç àëþìèíèÿ= íî â òîò ìîìåíò îí
íèêîãî íå èíòåðåñîâàë è ñòîÿë= ïîòîìó ÷òî ìåòàëë åìó íå äàâàëè\ Äî
òåõ ïîð= ïîêà â 1994 ã\ ñ ïîäà÷è
àêöèîíåðîâ ÊðÀÇà íå áûëî ïðèíÿòî ðåøåíèå ïåðåâåñòè íà áàëàíñ
ÊðàÌÇà ïî 20% àêöèé ÊðÀÇà è
À÷èíñêîãî ãëèíîçåìíîãî êîìáèíàòà= êîòîðûå íàõîäèëèñü â ãîññîáñòâåííîñòè\
- À âû ê ýòîìó ðóêó íå ïðèêëàäûâàëè~
- ß íè÷åãî îá ýòîì íå çíàë\
Ñîáñòâåííèêè ÊðÀÇà äóìàëè= ÷òî
âïîñëåäñòâèè ïîëó÷àò êîíòðîëü
íàä ýòèìè ïàêåòàìè= è áûëè ñòðàøíî óäèâëåíû= êîãäà óçíàëè= ÷òî ó
ÊðàÌÇà óæå äàâíî åñòü êðóïíûé
àêöèîíåð\ Îíè ïðåäëîæèëè ìíå
ïðîäàòü ýòîò ïàêåò= è â 1996 ã\ ÿ
åãî ïðîäàë î÷åíü äîðîãî\ À åùå ÷åðåç ãîä ñðåäè àêöèîíåðîâ ÊðÀÇà
íà÷àëèñü ðàçíîãëàñèÿ\ Âàñèëèé
Àíèñèìîâ õîðîøî çíàë òðîèõ èç
íèõ - Àëåêñàíäðà Êîëïàêîâà= Âëàäèìèðà Ðàòíèêîâà è Îëåãà Êèìà=
êîòîðûì ïðèíàäëåæàëî 28%\ Îí
ìíå ñêàçàë= ÷òî Êîëïàêîâ è Ðàòíèêîâ èùóò ïîêóïàòåëåé íà 48% àêöèé
çàâîäà\ Íî ìû ñ Âàñèëèåì êóïèëè
ó íèõ àêöèè òîëüêî ïîñëå òîãî= êàê
îíè âåðíóëè 20% Àíàòîëèþ Áûêîâó
è Ãåííàäèþ Äðóæèíèíó è Áûêîâ
ñîãëàñèëñÿ= ÷òî ìû áóäåì ðàáîòàòü
âìåñòå\
- À ïî÷åìó Áûêîâ òîãäà áûë íà-
çíà÷åí âèöå-ïðåçèäåíòîì “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà”~
- Îí íå áûë ÷ëåíîì ñîâåòà áàíêà= íå ïîëó÷àë çàðïëàòó è íå
èãðàë â áàíêå íèêàêîé ðîëè\ Â áàíêå âñåãäà áûëî ìíîãî âèöå-ïðåçèäåíòîâ= ýòî áûëà ìîÿ èäåÿ| ìû
íàçíà÷àëè íà ýòîò ïîñò ðóêîâîäèòåëåé èëè ñîáñòâåííèêîâ êðóïíûõ
ïðåäïðèÿòèé - êëèåíòîâ áàíêà\
Ëþäÿì áûëî ïðèÿòíî= íî ïðàêòè÷åñêè îíè òîëüêî ïîëó÷àëè âèçèòêè ñ íàäïèñÿìè “âèöå-ïðåçèäåíò”\
- Êàêîé ïàêåò àêöèé ÊðÀÇà âàì
ïðèíàäëåæàë~ Êîãäà è ïî÷åìó âû
óøëè ñ çàâîäà~
- Ìû ñ Âàñèëèåì [Àíèñèìîâûì]
êóïèëè ó Êîëïàêîâà è ñîòîâàðèùåé íà äâîèõ 14%\ Ïî 5% ïîòîì âûêóïèëè ó Glencore è Daewoo= òàêèì îáðàçîì= êîãäà ÿ óõîäèë ñ
ÊðÀÇà= ó ìåíÿ áûëî 12%\ À áûë ÿ
íà ÊðÀÇå ìåíüøå ãîäà - óøåë ïîñëå òîãî= êàê ó Áûêîâà è äðóãèõ
àêöèîíåðîâ ÊðÀÇà íà÷àëñÿ êîíôëèêò ñ ãóáåðíàòîðîì [êðàÿ] Àëåêñàíäðîì Ëåáåäåì\
- Ãîâîðÿò= ÷òî âû ñïîíñèðîâàëè
Ëåáåäÿ\
- ß ðàñêðó÷èâàë Ëåáåäÿ= êîãäà îí
áûë áðîøåííûì ïîëèòèêîì\ Ìåíÿ
òîãäà âêëþ÷èëè â òàê íàçûâàåìóþ
“ñåìèáàíêèðùèíó”\ ×ëåíû ïðåäâûáîðíîãî øòàáà Åëüöèíà= êîòîðûé âîçãëàâëÿë Àíàòîëèé ×óáàéñ=
íå âîñïðèíèìàëè Ëåáåäÿ âñåðüåç\
À ÿ ðàçìåñòèë â îôèñå áàíêà åãî
ïðåäâûáîðíûé øòàá= ôèíàíñèðîâàë åãî ðàñêðóòêó\ Çà ìåñÿö ïåðåä
âûáîðàìè âñå ïîíÿëè= ÷òî ÿ áûë
ïðàâ| ó Åëüöèíà áûë íèçêèé ðåéòèíã= Ëåáåäü íà âûáîðàõ îòäàë
ñâîè ãîëîñà Åëüöèíó è òåì ñàìûì
îáåñïå÷èë åìó ïîáåäó\ Ìíå æå òîãäà íèêòî äàæå ñïàñèáî íå ñêàçàë=
à êîãäà Ëåáåäÿ ñíèìàëè [ñ ïîñòà
ðóêîâîäèòåëÿ Ñîâáåçà]= âñå âñïîìíèëè= ÷òî ýòî ÿ åãî ïðèâåë= è ñäåëàëè ìåíÿ êðàéíèì\ Ýòî áûë åäèíñòâåííûé ðàç= êîãäà ÿ ó÷àñòâîâàë
â ïîëèòèêå\ Ïîòîì= êîãäà Ëåáåäü
èçáèðàëñÿ ãóáåðíàòîðîì= ÿ ïî ñòàðîé ïàìÿòè ïîìîã åìó êàäðàìè= íî
íàïðÿìóþ íå ôèíàíñèðîâàë è íå
áûë ñ íèì íèêàê ñâÿçàí\
“ß ÌÎÃ ÏÎÒÅÐZÒÜ ÂÑÅ”
— Âû ïîêóïàëè ðàçíîîáðàçíûå
àêòèâû= íî â êîíöå 90-õ èíâåñòèöèîííàÿ àêòèâíîñòü ñíèçèëàñü\ Ñ
÷åì ýòî ñâÿçàíî~
- Ïîñëå äåôîëòà 1998 ã\ âñå ñèëû
áûëè áðîøåíû íà ðåøåíèå ïðîáëåì “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà”\
Ïîäâåëè òîãäà= êñòàòè= ÷èíîâíèêè\
Íàêàíóíå îáúÿâëåíèÿ î äåôîëòå
íàñ= âëàäåëüöåâ êðóïíåéøèõ áàíêîâ= ïðåäóïðåäèëè îá ýòîì\ ß áûë
êàòåãîðè÷åñêè ïðîòèâ îáúÿâëåíèÿ
äåôîëòà= íî ìåíÿ âñå óñïîêàèâàëè=
à ðóêîâîäèòåëü ÖÁ Ñåðãåé Äóáèíèí ïîîáåùàë= ÷òî= åñëè áàíêó ïîòðåáóåòñÿ êðåäèò= áàíê åãî ïîëó÷èò\ Îáúÿâëÿåòñÿ äåôîëò= è âêëàä÷èêè êèäàþòñÿ çàáèðàòü äåíüãè\
Åñëè áû ìû= êàê ìíîãèå äðóãèå òîãäà= íå ñòàëè âûäàâàòü äåíüãè= ïîñëåäñòâèÿ êðèçèñà áûëè áû íå
ñòîëü ðàçðóøèòåëüíû äëÿ áàíêà\ Íî
ìû ÷åñòíî â òå÷åíèå äâóõ íåäåëü
âûäàëè âñåì æåëàþùèì $180 ìëí\
Êîãäà äåíüãè çàêîí÷èëèñü= ÿ íàïîìíèë Äóáèíèíó î åãî îáåùàíèè= íî
îí êðåäèò íå äàë\
- Êàêèìè îêàçàëèñü äëÿ áàíêà
ïîñëåäñòâèÿ äåôîëòà~ ×òî âû ïðåäïðèíÿëè äëÿ âûâîäà áàíêà èç
êðèçèñà~
- ß òîãäà îêàçàëñÿ ïåðåä ñëîæíûì
âûáîðîì - áàíêðîòèòü áàíê èëè ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíî ïðîâîäèòü ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèþ\ Õîòÿ òàêîå ðåøåíèå
äàëîñü íåëåãêî= ÿ âûáðàë ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèþ\ Ýêîíîìè÷åñêîãî ñìûñëà äëÿ ìåíÿ= êàê àêöèîíåðà= îíà
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ðûíî÷íàÿ ñòîèìîñòü ðåñòðóêòóðèðîâàííîãî áàíêà áóäåò î÷åíü íèçêîé\ Ðàçðûâ ìåæäó ïàññèâàìè è
àêòèâàìè áàíêà íà òîò ìîìåíò ñîñòàâëÿë îêîëî $1 ìëðä\
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âðåìÿ òàêæå åäâà äîñòèãàëà
$1 ìëðä\ Òîãäà ÿ ïðèíÿë ðåøåíèå
ïîä îáåñïå÷åíèå äîëãîâ áàíêà çàëîæèòü âñå ïðèíàäëåæàùèå ìíå
àêöèè ïðîìûøëåííûõ ïðåäïðèÿòèé - Ëåáåäèíñêîãî= Ñòîéëåíñêîãî=
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êîòîðîãî ìíå ïðèøëîñü ïîòîì ïðîäàòü= êëèåíòû “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà” ïîíåñëè áû êðàéíå îùóòèìûå ïîòåðè= íî äîïóñòèòü ýòîãî â
ñèëó ñâîèõ æèçíåííûõ ïðèíöèïîâ
ÿ íå ìîã\ Ýòî ìàëî êòî ïîíèìàë —
çíàêîìûå áèçíåñìåíû ñ÷èòàëè
ìåíÿ åäâà ëè íå ñàìîóáèéöåé\ (ÐÊ
ïåðåøåë ïîä óïðàâëåíèå ÀÐÊÎ â
1999 ã\ Ïîëó÷èâ â ñîáñòâåííîñòü
25% + 1 àêöèÿ áàíêà= à åùå 50% - â
óïðàâëåíèå= àãåíòñòâî îòêðûëî åìó
êðåäèòíóþ ëèíèþ íà 4=5 ìëðä ðóá\
 òîò ìîìåíò êðåäèòîðñêàÿ çàäîëæåííîñòü ÐÊ ñîñòàâëÿëà îêîëî
$1 ìëðä\ Â àâãóñòå 2000 ã\ áûëî
óòâåðæäåíî ìèðîâîå ñîãëàøåíèå=
ïî êîòîðîìó âêëàä÷èêè (òðåáîâàíèÿ - 1=8 ìëðä ðóá\) ïîëó÷èëè åäèíîâðåìåííóþ
âûïëàòó
äî
30 000 ðóá\ è âåêñåëÿ ÐÊ= à êîðïîðàòèâíûå êðåäèòîðû (òðåáîâàíèÿ 21 ìëðä ðóá\) - äî 10% îò òðåáîâàíèé äåíüãàìè è âåêñåëÿ áàíêà ñî
ñðîêîì ïîãàøåíèÿ äî 10 ëåò\ Ê
èþíþ 2003 ã\ áàíê ïîãàñèë 90% îáÿçàòåëüñòâ ïåðåä ôèçè÷åñêèìè ëèöàìè\  íîÿáðå 2003 ã\ êàïèòàë ÐÊ
âíîâü ñòàë ïîëîæèòåëüíûì\ Ïî ñëîâàì ïðåäñòàâèòåëåé ÀÐÊÎ= ýòî ïðîèçîøëî â ðåçóëüòàòå êîíâåðòàöèè
äîëãîâ áàíêà â åãî êàïèòàë â õîäå
äîïýìèññèè\)
- Êàêèå àêòèâû âàì ïðèøëîñü
ïðîäàòü äëÿ ðàñïëàòû ñ êðåäèòîðàìè~
- Ïàêåòû= ïîçâîëÿâøèå êîíòðîëèðîâàòü Ëåáåäèíñêèé ÃÎÊ= Îðëîâñêèé ñòàëåïðîêàòíûé çàâîä=
“Òóëà÷åðìåò”\ Ïðîäàâàë òî= íà ÷òî
áûë íàèáîëüøèé ñïðîñ\ Êñòàòè=
àêöèè Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà òîãäà
íèêîìó íå áûëè íóæíû= çà íèõ òîãäà è $50 ìëí íå äàë áû íèêòî\ Âñåãî
æå àêöèîíåðû áàíêà ïåðå÷èñëèëè
êðåäèòîðàì îêîëî $450 ìëí - ýòà
ñóììà âêëþ÷àåò â ñåáÿ äîõîä îò ðåàëèçàöèè àêöèé è êðåäèòû ÀÐÊÎ=
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ïëþñ $3 ìëðä\
Íî ÿ ìîã ïîòåðÿòü âñå\ Åñëè áû
ïîäúåì ýêîíîìèêè â ñòðàíå çàòîðìîçèëñÿ åùå íà ïîëãîäà-ãîä= ÿ áûë
áû âûíóæäåí ïðîäàòü âñþ çàëîæåííóþ ñîáñòâåííîñòü è îñòàëñÿ áû
íè ñ ÷åì\  ïðîøëîì ãîäó ÐÊ çàâåðøèë ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèþ\ ß óâåðåí=
÷òî ýòî ïîäíÿëî íå òîëüêî ïðåñòèæ
ÐÊ è åãî àêöèîíåðîâ= íî è äîâåðèå
êî âñåé áàíêîâñêîé ñèñòåìå
Ðîññèè\ Çàðóáåæíûå áàíêèðû ñ
ïðèñòàëüíûì âíèìàíèåì ñëåäèëè
òîãäà çà ñèòóàöèåé â ñòðàíå= à ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèÿ íàøåãî áàíêà ïîêàçàëà= ÷òî â Ðîññèè âîçìîæíû
ïðèìåðû öèâèëèçîâàííîãî ðåøåíèÿ ýòîé ïðîáëåìû\
- Íå æàëååòå ñåãîäíÿ= ÷òî ïîøëè íà òàêóþ ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèþ~
- ß ãîðæóñü òåì= ÷òî òàê ïîñòóïèë\ ß ñîõðàíèë áàíê= êîòîðûé ñîçäàë\ Ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèÿ ÐÊ - åäèíñòâåííûé ñëó÷àé â ìèðîâîé ïðàêòèêå= êîãäà ÷àñòíàÿ êîìïàíèÿ
îòâåòèëà ïî äîëãàì= âîçíèêøèì ïî
âèíå ïðàâèòåëüñòâà\ Õîòÿ= êîíå÷íî=
íåìíîãî ãîðüêî= ÷òî ìàëî êòî îöåíèë òî= ÷òî ìíå ïðèøëîñü ñäåëàòü\
Íî ÿ íå æàëåþ\ Íó íå ïîòåðÿë
áû ÿ ñòîëüêî äåíåã= â ìîåé æèçíè
ýòî íè÷åãî íå èçìåíèëî áû\ Äåíüãè
äëÿ ìåíÿ íå èìåþò ñàìîöåííîñòè;
ëèøíèå äåíüãè - êàê ëèøíèé æèð
ó ÷åëîâåêà| îíè îòÿãîùàþò è ñîçäàþò äîïîëíèòåëüíûå ïðîáëåìû\
- À ÷òî ñâÿçûâàëî âàñ ñ ïðåäïðèíèìàòåëåì Àðêàäèåì Ãàéäàìàêîì=
êîòîðûé â 2000 ã\ çàíÿë ïîñò ïðåäñåäàòåëÿ ñîâåòà äèðåêòîðîâ
“Ðîñêðåäà”~ Áûëè ëè ó âàñ ñîâìåñòíûå ïðîåêòû~ Ãîâîðÿò= îí õîòåë ïðèñîåäèíèòüñÿ ê ïîêóïêå
Îðëîâñêîãî ñòàëåïðîêàòíîãî çàâîäà\
- ß ïîçíàêîìèëñÿ ñ Ãàéäàìàêîì
â 1991 ã\ Îí õîòåë ÷òî-íèáóäü êóïèòü â Ðîññèè= ÿ ñ íèì= êàê è ñ
òûñÿ÷åé äðóãèõ ïðåäïðèíèìàòåëåé= îáñóæäàë âîçìîæíîñòü ñîâìåñòíûõ èíâåñòèöèé\ Îí äåéñòâèòåëüíî õîòåë ïîó÷àñòâîâàòü â ïðèîáðåòåíèè àêöèé Îðëîâñêîãî ñòàëåïðîêàòíîãî çàâîäà= íî â èòîãå äåíåã íå äàë\ Íèêàêîãî ñîâìåñòíîãî
áèçíåñà ó ìåíÿ ñ íèì íå áûëî\ Çàòî
áëàãîäàðÿ åìó ÿ çàíÿëñÿ íåäâèæè-
ìîñòüþ\ Â 1992-1993 ãã\ Ãàéäàìàê
âçÿë â áàíêå êðåäèòû= îáåñïå÷åííûå àêöèÿìè “Ìèíñêà” è
“Öåíòðàëüíîé”= è íå âåðíóë èõ\
- È âñå æå áûë ëè Ãàéäàìàê
àêöèîíåðîì “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà”~ Â 2000 ã\ â áàíêå çàÿâëÿëè=
÷òî îí ÿâëÿåòñÿ àêöèîíåðîì\
- Ñ ïåðâîãî äíÿ çíàêîìñòâà îí
óãîâàðèâàë ìåíÿ ïðîäàòü õîòÿ áû
10% áàíêà= íî ÿ îòêàçûâàëñÿ\ È âîò
â 2000 ã\ Ãàéäàìàê ïîÿâëÿåòñÿ è ãîâîðèò= ÷òî ãîòîâ êóïèòü 25% çà
$200 ìëí\ Â ýòî âðåìÿ áàíê áûë ïîä
óïðàâëåíèåì ÀÐÊÎ\ Åñëè áû îí äåíåã äàë= ÿ áû åìó è áîëüøèé ïàêåò
çà ìåíüøèå äåíüãè ïðîäàë\ Äîêóìåíòîâ= ïðàâäà= ñðàçó íèêàêèõ íå
ïîäïèñàëè= íî åãî íàçíà÷èëè ïðåäñåäàòåëåì ñîâåòà- ó íàñ êàê ðàç
òîãäà [Àëåêñàíäð] Ëèâøèö óõîäèë
ñ ýòîé äîëæíîñòè= íàäî áûëî íà åãî
ìåñòî êîãî-òî ïîäáèðàòü\ Ãàéäàìàê=
âèäèìî= íå âåðèë= ÷òî ÿ íå áóäó
áàíê áàíêðîòèòü\ Ïîðàáîòàë ó íàñ
òðè ìåñÿöà= óâèäåë ñâîèìè ãëàçàìè
âñå çàëîãè è óøåë\ Íó à êîãäà ìû
óçíàëè= ÷òî îí îðóæèåì òîðãóåò= ÿ
ñêàçàë= ÷òî íîãè åãî áîëüøå â áàíêå íå áóäåò\
“ÐÅØÈË ÍÀÂÅÑÒÈ
ÏÎÐZÄÎÊ Â ÑÂÎÅÌ
ÁÎËÜØÎÌ ÕÎÇZÉÑÒÂÅ”
- Êàê âû ïëàíèðóåòå äàëüøå ðàçâèâàòü âàøè áàíêè~ Íå ñîáèðàåòåñü ïðîäàâàòü ÈÌÏÝÊÑÁÀÍÊ~
Âîçìîæíî ëè ñëèÿíèå “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà” è ÈÌÏÝÊÑÁÀÍÊà~
òîì= ÷òîáû ñîçäàòü çàâåðøåííóþ
ïðîèçâîäñòâåííóþ öåïî÷êó\ Âîçìîæíîñòü îáúåäèíåíèÿ àêòèâîâ îáñóæäàë ñ âëàäåëüöàìè âñåõ êðóïíåéøèõ êîìáèíàòîâ — ñ Âëàäèìèðîì
Ëèñèíûì= Âèêòîðîì Ðàøíèêîâûì=
Àëåêñååì Ìîðäàøîâûì\ Íî êàæäûé èç íèõ õîòåë ñîõðàíèòü çà
ñîáîé êîíòðîëüíûé ïàêåò â îáúåäèíåííîé êîìïàíèè= ìåíÿ ýòî íå
óñòðàèâàëî\ Äàëüøå âñåõ ÿ ïðîäâèíóëñÿ â ïåðåãîâîðàõ ñ [ñîâëàäåëüöåì “Åâðàçõîëäèíãà”] Àëåêñàíäðîì Àáðàìîâûì\ Â ïðîøëîì ãîäó
ìû ñ íèì äîãîâîðèëèñü îá îáúåäèíåíèè “Åâðàçõîëäèíãà” è Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà= â îáúåäèíåííîé êîìïàíèè ñ äîïëàòîé ÿ ïîëó÷àë áû
äî 40%= ÷òî äåëàëî áû ìåíÿ åå êðóïíåéøèì àêöèîíåðîì (àêöèè
“Åâðàçõîëäèíãà” ðàñïðåäåëåíû
ñðåäè ìåíåäæìåíòà êîìïàíèè)\ Ó
íàñ óæå áûëè ãîòîâû ê ïîäïèñàíèþ äîêóìåíòû= íî òóò ìíå ïîñòóïèëî ïðåäëîæåíèå îò ìîåãî äàâíåãî
äðóãà Âàñèëèÿ Àíèñèìîâà è Àëèøåðà Óñìàíîâà\
- Ñíà÷àëà áûëî çàÿâëåíî= ÷òî âû
áóäåòå îáúåäèíÿòü àêòèâû= à ÷åðåç íåñêîëüêî ìåñÿöåâ âñåõ îãîðîøèëè èçâåñòèåì î òîì= ÷òî çà
$2 ìëðä âû ïðîäàëè èì êîìáèíàò\
- Ìû íà÷àëè ñ îáñóæäåíèÿ âîçìîæíîñòè ñîâìåñòíîãî áèçíåñà=
ñîçäàíèÿ íîâîãî ìåòàëëóðãè÷åñêîãî
ïðîèçâîäñòâà íà áàçå ïðèíàäëåæàùåãî èì êîìáèíàòà “ÍÎÑÒÀ”\ ß õîòåë ñîõðàíèòü çà ñîáîé êîíòðîëüíûé ïàêåò àêöèé Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî
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- Äî ñäåëêè ïî Ìèõàéëîâñêîìó
ÃÎÊó ÿ ðàññìàòðèâàë âàðèàíò ïðîäàæè ÈÌÏÝÊÑÁÀÍÊà= íî òåïåðü
ðåøèë ñäåëàòü ôèíàíñîâûé ñåêòîð
îäíèì èç ïðèîðèòåòíûõ\ Íåäàâíî
ÿ óæå óâåëè÷èë óñòàâíûé êàïèòàë
ÐÊ íà $100 ìëí äî $350 ìëí - âëîæèë äåíüãè= ïîëó÷åííûå îò ïðîäàæè àêöèé “Òóëà÷åðìåòà”\ Íåäàâíî $50 ìëí âëîæèë è â
ÈÌÏÝÊÑÁÀÍÊ\ Ïëàíèðóþ âëîæèòü â áëèæàéøåå âðåìÿ â îáà áàíêà åùå $150 ìëí\ Îáúåäèíÿòü èõ
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äåðæàòü äâà áàíêà - îäèí=
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ÐÊ ÷åðåç íåñêîëüêî ëåò ñäåëàþ
îäíèì èç ëó÷øèõ èíâåñòáàíêîâ â
ñòðàíå\ Õîòÿ äëÿ ýòîãî ïðèäåòñÿ
ïðèëîæèòü ìíîãî óñèëèé= â ïåðâóþ
î÷åðåäü ýòî êàñàåòñÿ óëó÷øåíèÿ
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“Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” íåñêîëüêî ëåò
ëåæàë\
- À íàñêîëüêî îïðàâäàííî ðàçâèâàòü ÈÌÏÝÊCÁÀÍÊ= âåäü ïîçèöèè èíîñòðàííûõ áàíêîâ óñèëèâàþòñÿ= êîíêóðèðîâàòü ñ íèìè
ñòàíîâèòñÿ âñå ñëîæíåå\
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ïàðòíåðû\ Ìû õîòåëè ïðîäàâàòü äî
25% [àêöèé]= íî ïîòåíöèàëüíûå
ïîêóïàòåëè íàñ óáåäèëè= ÷òî ìåíüøå áëîêèðóþùåãî èì íå èíòåðåñíî= è òåïåðü ìû âåäåì ïåðåãîâîðû î ïðîäàæå 25% + 1 àêöèÿ\ Ýòà
ñäåëêà äàñò òîë÷îê ðàçâèòèþ áàíêà=
îñòàíåòñÿ ëèøü ïðàâèëüíî âûñòðîèòü áèçíåñ\
- À ñ êåì âû âåäåòå ïåðåãîâîðû~
- Ñ êðóïíåéøèìè áàíêàìè Ôðàíöèè= Ãåðìàíèè= Íèäåðëàíäîâ\
Âûáîð áóäåò ñäåëàí â áëèæàéøåå
âðåìÿ\
— Ïî÷åìó âû ïðîäàëè Ìèõàéëîâñêèé ÃÎÊ~
— Åùå ñ ñåðåäèíû 90-õ ÿ ñòðåìèëñÿ îáúåäèíèòü ÃÎÊ ñ êàêèìíèáóäü ñòàëåëèòåéíûì êîìáèíà-
ÃÎÊà= à îíè â ýòîì ñëó÷àå íàñòàèâàëè íà ïàðèòåòå â êîìáèíàòå
“ÍÎÑÒÀ” = ïðîèçâîäèòåëå ãîòîâîé
êîíå÷íîé ïðîäóêöèè\ Òàêîé âàðèàíò áûë äëÿ ìåíÿ íåïðèåìëåìûì=
ÿ è ðåøèë ïðîäàòü èì âåñü ïàêåò —
â îòëè÷èå îò Àáðàìîâà îíè ìíå
ñäåëàëè òàêîå ïðåäëîæåíèå\
- Ìîæåò áûòü= ðåøåíèå î âûõîäå èç ìåòàëëóðãè÷åñêîãî áèçíåñà âû ïðèíÿëè ïîä âëèÿíèåì
òîãî= ÷òî â Ðîññèè âñå áîëüøå óæåñòî÷àþòñÿ óñëîâèÿ äëÿ âåäåíèÿ
áèçíåñà~
- Àêöèè Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà ÿ
ïðîäàë= ïîòîìó ÷òî çà íèõ ìíå ïðåäëîæèëè õîðîøèå äåíüãè\ Ïîëèòèêó ÿ êîììåíòèðîâàòü íå õî÷ó\
- À â êàêîé èç ïåðèîäîâ âàì
áûëî êîìôîðòíåå âñåãî ðàáîòàòü — âàì âåäü óäàëîñü ïðî÷óâñòâîâàòü îñîáåííîñòè êàæäîãî
ïåðèîäà òàê íàçûâàåìûõ ðûíî÷íûõ îòíîøåíèé~
- Êîìôîðòíåå âñåãî ÿ ÷óâñòâîâàë ñåáÿ= êîãäà “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” áûë îäíèì èç êðóïíåéøèõ áàíêîâ â ñòðàíå= êîòîðûé íàõîäèëñÿ
íà ïèêå ðàçâèòèÿ\
- Äî ñäåëêè ïî Ìèõàéëîâñêîìó
ÃÎÊó âû ïðîäàëè Ñòîéëåíñêèé ÃÎÊ\
Ýòî âûãëÿäèò òàê= êàê áóäòî âû ïðîâîäèòå ðàñïðîäàæó èìóùåñòâà\
- ß ðåøèë íàâåñòè ïîðÿäîê â
ñâîåì áîëüøîì õîçÿéñòâå\ Ýíåðãèÿ
óæå íå òà= ÷òîáû çàíèìàòüñÿ âñåì
ñðàçó\ Ó ìåíÿ î÷åíü ìíîãî ðàçíîîáðàçíûõ àêòèâîâ= ìíîãèå èç êîòîðûõ ïîêóïàëèñü åùå â ñàìîì íà÷àëå ïðèâàòèçàöèè\ Îò âñåõ íåïðîôèëüíûõ àêòèâîâ ÿ õî÷ó äî êîíöà
ãîäà èçáàâèòüñÿ= îñòàâëþ òîëüêî
“Ñòîéëåíñêóþ íèâó”= áàíêè= íåäâèæèìîñòü= àïòå÷íûé áèçíåñ= ÂÑÍÊ\
- Âî ñêîëüêî âû îöåíèâàåòå
àêòèâû “Óíèêîðà”~ Ñêîëüêî ìîæåò ïðèíåñòè ïðîäàæà íåïðîôèëüíîãî èìóùåñòâà~
- Äóìàþ= ñåé÷àñ ñòîèìîñòü âñåõ
àêòèâîâ - $1=5-2 ìëðä\ Íåïðîôèëüíûå àêòèâû ñòîÿò îêîëî $500 ìëí\
- Âû ïðîäàëè Ñòîéëåíñêèé ÃÎÊ
çà $510 ìëí= Ìèõàéëîâñêèé ÃÎÊ
è “Òóëà÷åðìåò” - çà $2 ìëðä\ Ðûíîê
çàèíòðèãîâàí - êàê âû ðàñïîðÿäèòåñü âûðó÷åííûìè äåíüãàìè~
- Ïîëîâèíó ñðåäñòâ îò ñäåëêè ñ
àêöèÿìè Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà ÿ
ïëàíèðóþ íàïðàâèòü â ñâîè íûíåøíèå ïðîåêòû\ Ïðèîðèòåò äëÿ
ìåíÿ - ñåëüñêîå õîçÿéñòâî\ Â “Ñòîéëåíñêóþ íèâó” óæå âëîæåíî îêîëî
$200 ìëí= ïëàíèðóþ èíâåñòèðîâàòü åùå $200-300 ìëí\ Ñåé÷àñ âåäó
ïåðåãîâîðû î ïðèîáðåòåíèè êîìïàíèè= ñîïîñòàâèìîé ïî ðàçìåðó
ñî “Ñòîéëåíñêîé íèâîé”= íàçâàòü
åå ïîêà íå ìîãó\
- À ïî÷åìó âû äåëàåòå ñòàâêó íà
ñåëüñêîõîçÿéñòâåííûé áèçíåñ~ Ó
âàñ åñòü êàêèå-òî ðàñ÷åòû= ïîêàçûâàþùèå= ÷òî îí ïåðñïåêòèâåí~
-  íûíåøíèõ óñëîâèÿõ òàêèå ðàñ÷åòû ñäåëàòü íåâîçìîæíî= ìíîãîå
áóäåò çàâèñåòü îò ïîçèöèè ïðàâèòåëüñòâà\ À ìíîþ äâèæåò ñâîåãî
ðîäà ñïîðòèâíûé èíòåðåñ= àçàðò ïîñòðîèòü óñïåøíóþ êîìïàíèþ â
òðóäíîì ñåêòîðå\
- À îïðàâäàë ëè àïòå÷íûé áèçíåñ âàøè îæèäàíèÿ~
- Ìû åãî ñîçäàëè ñ íóëÿ= ïîêà
ïðèáûëü åùå íå ïðåâûñèëà âëîæåííûå èíâåñòèöèè= îíà âñÿ ðåèíâåñòèðóåòñÿ= íî ýòî íàïðàâëåíèå ÿ ñ÷èòàþ ïåðñïåêòèâíûì\
Âëîæó òóäà $100-200 ìëí\ Â ïðîøëîì ãîäó ìû óæå êóïèëè êðóïíóþ
àïòå÷íóþ ñåòü â Þæíîì ôåäåðàëüíîì îêðóãå= ñåé÷àñ ïðîâîäèì åå
ðåáðýíäèíã\ Íî ñåé÷àñ ìíîãèì
èíòåðåñåí ýòîò áèçíåñ - ìû çàÿâèëè= ÷òî ãîòîâû ïîêóïàòü àïòå÷íûå ñåòè= òàê íèêòî íå õî÷åò ïðîäàâàòü\
- Êàêèå ïðîåêòû ïî íåäâèæèìîñòè ñîáèðàåòåñü ðåàëèçîâàòü~
- Íà÷àëàñü ðåêîíñòðóêöèÿ “Ìèíñêà”= íà î÷åðåäè - ãîñòèíèöà “Öåíòðàëüíàÿ”\ Èçó÷àþ âîçìîæíîñòü
ïîêóïêè íà âòîðè÷íîì ðûíêå åùå
êàêèõ-íèáóäü ãîñòèíèö\ Íà òåððèòîðèè çàâîäà “Êàó÷óê” ïëîùàäüþ
10 ãà ñêîðî íà÷íåòñÿ ñòðîèòåëüñòâî
áîëüøîãî ìíîãîôóíêöèîíàëüíîãî
êîìïëåêñà - îôèñû= æèëûå äîìà è
äð\ Íåäâèæèìîñòüþ áóäåì çàíèìàòüñÿ è äàëüøå= óæå èùåì ñòàðûå
ïîìåùåíèÿ= çåìëþ äëÿ çàñòðîéêè\
 íåäâèæèìîñòü áóäóò ñàìûå áîëüøèå èíâåñòèöèè - îêîëî $500 ìëí\
- Ó âàñ áûëà áîëüøàÿ òðàíñïîðòíàÿ êîìïàíèÿ “Wåíòð ðóäíûõ
ïåðåâîçîê”\ Åå ïðîäàâàòü íå ñîáèðàåòåñü~ Âî ñêîëüêî âû åå îöåíèâàåòå~
- Äóìàþ= â $250 ìëí\ Ýòà êîìïàíèÿ = êðóïíåéøàÿ íà ðûíêå æåëåçíîäîðîæíûõ ïåðåâîçîê= ó íåå
ïàðê - 4000 âàãîíîâ= áëèæàéøèå
10 ëåò åå íèêòî íå ñìîæåò ïîòåñíèòü\ ß åå ïîêà íà ïðîäàæó íå
âûñòàâëÿþ= íî åñëè ïîêóïàòåëè íàéäóòñÿ - ïðîäàì\
- À âòîðóþ ïîëîâèíó äåíåã çà
Ìèõàéëîâñêèé ÃÎÊ êàê ñîáèðàåòåñü ïîòðàòèòü~ Ïëàíèðóåòå êóïèòü êàêîé-òî êðóïíûé àêòèâ~
Ìîæåò áûòü= çà ïðåäåëàìè Ðîññèè~
- Âñå ïðèîáðåòåíèÿ ÿ áóäó äåëàòü òîëüêî â Ðîññèè= êîòîðóþ õîðîøî çíàþ\ ß õîòåë áû êóïèòü íîâîå êðóïíîå ïðåäïðèÿòèå= íî èíòåðåñíûõ ïðåäëîæåíèé íåò\ Îäíèì
èç âàðèàíòîâ áóäåò ïîêóïêà êîíòðîëüíîãî ïàêåòà àêöèé ÂÑÍÊ\
“Óíèêîðó” ïðèíàäëåæàò 28=5%
àêöèé ýòîé êîìïàíèè= îíà çàíèìàåòñÿ îñâîåíèåì ñëàáî èññëåäîâàííûõ= íî ïåðñïåêòèâíûõ íåôòÿíûõ
çàïàñîâ Âîñòî÷íîé Ñèáèðè= â ÷àñòíîñòè â Êðàñíîÿðñêîì êðàå= êîòîðûé ÿ õîðîøî çíàþ\
- Êàê âû îêàçàëèñü â ýòîì ïðîåêòå~
- Ïîñëå ðàçâàëà “ÞÊÑÈ” (âåñíîé 1998 ã\ âëàäåëüöû “Ñèáíåôòè”
è “ÞÊÎÑà” ïëàíèðîâàëè ñîçäàòü
îáúåäèíåííóþ êîìïàíèþ ñ òàêèì
íàçâàíèåì) àêöèîíåðû “Ñèáíåôòè”
ïðîäàëè ÂÑÍÊ íåêèì íåôòåòðåéäåðàì= ÿ óæå íå ïîìíþ= êàê èõ
çâàëè= òå ïðîäàâàëè 100% àêöèé
ÂÑÍÊ ìíå= à ÿ ðåøèë= ÷òî ñàì ýòîò
ïðîåêò íå ïîòÿíó= è îðãàíèçîâàë
ïðîäàæó êîíòðîëüíîãî ïàêåòà
[ÂÑÍÊ] “ÞÊÎÑó”\ Ñóäüáà ýòîãî
ïðîåêòà ïîêà íåÿñíà\ Åñëè ãîñóäàðñòâî çàÿâèò ñâîþ ïîçèöèþ ïî
ÂÑÍÊ= òî ÿ ìîã áû ïðåòåíäîâàòü
íà âûêóï êîíòðîëüíîãî ïàêåòà= íî
ÿ äîëæåí ïîíèìàòü= ñ êåì âåñòè
ïåðåãîâîðû= - ñ “ÞÊÎÑîì” èëè ñ
ãîñóäàðñòâîì\
- Âû âåäåòå ïåðåãîâîðû ñ
“ÞÊÎÑîì” î ïîêóïêå êîíòðîëüíîãî ïàêåòà àêöèé ÂÑÍÊ~
- Ïîêà íå âåäó\
- ×åì ýòîò ïðîåêò âàñ ïðèâëåêàåò~
- ß õîðîøî çíàþ ýòó êîìïàíèþ=
îíà óñïåøíî ðàçâèâàëàñü= ê íåé
íå áûëî è íåò ïðåòåíçèé ñî ñòîðîíû ãîñîðãàíîâ= ðåãóëèðóþùèõ
âîïðîñû ïðèðîäîïîëüçîâàíèÿ\
Àêöèîíåðû óæå èíâåñòèðîâàëè â
íåå $190 ìëí\ Ñòðàòåãèÿ ðàçâèòèÿ
ÂÑÍÊ íàñ= êàê ìèíîðèòàðíûõ
àêöèîíåðîâ= óñòðàèâàåò\ Åñëè
ÂÑÍÊ áóäåò ïðîäàâàòüñÿ= îäíèõ
ìîèõ äåíåã íà îñâîåíèå ýòîãî ïðîåêòà íå õâàòèò= íàäî áóäåò ïðèâëåêàòü äîïîëíèòåëüíûå ñðåäñòâà\
- À åñëè ïîêóïêà ÂÑÍÊ íå ñîñòîèòñÿ~
- Áóäó ïîðòôåëüíûì èíâåñòîðîì\
ß õîðîøî çíàþ èíâåñòèöèîííûé áèçíåñ\ Ìíå óæå ïðèíàäëåæèò îêîëî
1% àêöèé “Ãàçïðîìà”= “ËÓÊÎÉËà”=
äðóãèõ êîìïàíèé\ Áóäó è äàëüøå
ïîêóïàòü ëèêâèäíûå áóìàãè ðîññèéñêèõ êîìïàíèé\
- Âû âåðíóëèñü â Ãðóçèþ íåäàâíî\ À áèçíåñîì òàì äàâíî çàíèìàåòåñü~
- Â Ãðóçèè ÿ óæå îêîëî 10 ëåò
çàíèìàþñü áèçíåñîì\ Àêòèâû
î÷åíü ðàçíîîáðàçíûå\ Ìíå ïðèíàäëåæèò îäíà èç êðóïíåéøèõ ïèùåâûõ êîìïàíèé - “×àéêà”= äåëàåò
ìîðîæåíîå= ïåëüìåíè= ïå÷åíüå\
Åñòü áàíê “Êàðòó”\ Ñàìàÿ êðóïíàÿ
ñòðîèòåëüíàÿ êîìïàíèÿ â Ãðóçèè ñòðîèò è îôèñû= è æèëüå\ Ñåëüñêîõîçÿéñòâåííàÿ êîìïàíèÿ= âëàäååò
600 ãà çåìëè\ Åñòü ó ìåíÿ è ñàìûé
áîëüøîé â Ãðóçèè ïîãðåá= âðåçàííûé â ãîðó\ Â íåì ñòîÿò îãðîìíûå
öèñòåðíû ñ âèíîì\ Ìû çàñàäèëè
áîëüøå 300 ãà âèíîãðàäíèêîâ= äóìàëè ðàçâèâàòüñÿ\ Íî òåïåðü âñå
ýòî ïðîäàþ\ Ïîêóïàòåëè åñòü óæå
íà âñå\ Îñòàâëþ òîëüêî áàíê\
- Ïî÷åìó âû ðåøèëè ïðîäàòü
ãðóçèíñêèé áèçíåñ~
- Ìíå ñêîðî 50= è íàäî ñêîíöåíòðèðîâàòüñÿ íà ãëàâíîì= ñèë íåò
çàíèìàòüñÿ âñåì\ Åäèíñòâåííûé
ïðîåêò= êîòîðûé ÿ õî÷ó çàâåðøèòü= - ýòî ñîçäàíèå ãîðíîëûæíîãî êîìïëåêñà “Áàêóðèàíè-2”\
Íåñêîëüêî ëåò íàçàä ÿ êóïèë áîëüøîé ó÷àñòîê çåìëè íà îäíîì èç
ëó÷øèõ ãîðíûõ ìàññèâîâ Åâðîïû\
Êàíàäñêèå è àâñòðèéñêèå êîìïàíèè óæå ïîäãîòîâèëè ãåíïëàí ðàçâèòèÿ êóðîðòíîãî êîìïëåêñà= îí
áóäåò âêëþ÷àòü â ñåáÿ ëûæíûå òðàññû è ðàçâëåêàòåëüíûé öåíòð\ Â
ýòîì ãîäó ÿ íà÷íó ôèíàíñèðîâàíèå ñòðîèòåëüñòâà ïåðâîãî ýòàïà
ïðîåêòà - ãîíäîëüíîé êàíàòíîé äîðîãè= â ñëåäóþùåì ãîäó âñÿ
èíôðàñòðóêòóðà äîëæíà áûòü ãîòîâà\ Íî ÿ ñàì íå õî÷ó çàíèìàòüñÿ
ýòèì ïðîåêòîì\ Â îñíîâíîì òóäà
áóäóò åçäèòü ðîññèéñêèå òóðèñòû\
ß õî÷ó= ÷òîáû ðîññèéñêèå òóðîïåðàòîðû çàíèìàëèñü ñòðîèòåëüñòâîì ãîñòèíèö= ãîòîâ ïåðåäàòü
èì áåçâîçìåçäíî çåìëþ ïîä ñòðîèòåëüñòâî= ïðåäîñòàâèòü èì ëüãîòíîå ôèíàíñèðîâàíèå\
- Âàø ïåðååçä â Ãðóçèþ ñîâïàë
ñ ñåðüåçíûìè ïîëèòè÷åñêèìè
èçìåíåíèÿìè â ñòðàíå\ Êàê âû èõ
îöåíèâàåòå~
- Ê âëàñòè ïðèøëè ìîëîäûå
ñèëû= íî ÿ íè çà= íè ïðîòèâ íèõ ýòî âñå= ÷òî ÿ ìîãó ñêàçàòü\ ß âîîáùå î÷åíü ñîæàëåþ= ÷òî ðîññèéñêî-ãðóçèíñêèå îòíîøåíèÿ çàøëè
â òàêîå ðóñëî\
- Íàñêîëüêî ïóáëè÷íûé îáðàç
æèçíè âû âåäåòå â Ãðóçèè= êàê ê
âàì îòíîñÿòñÿ ìåñòíûå ïîëèòèêè=
áèçíåñìåíû~
- ß íè ñ êåì èç íèõ íå êîíòàêòèðóþ= æèâó î÷åíü îáîñîáëåííî=
îáùàþñü òîëüêî ñ ðîäñòâåííèêàìè=
áëèçêèìè äðóçüÿìè\ Ó ìåíÿ íåò ïîëèòè÷åñêèõ àìáèöèé= ìíå ïðîñòî
õî÷åòñÿ ñïîêîéíî æèòü ñî ñâîåé
ñåìüåé= ñâîå ñåëî ×îðâèëà ïî äåëàì áèçíåñà ÿ ïîêèäàþ ëèøü èíîãäà\
- Åñëè âñå ýòî òàê= ïî÷åìó âû
íå ïîäàâàëè â ñóä èñê î çàùèòå
÷åñòè è äîñòîèíñòâà~
- Ïîòîìó ÷òî ÿ íèêîãäà è íå òåðÿë ÷åñòü è äîñòîèíñòâî= æèë ïî
ñîâåñòè= à î âîññòàíîâëåíèè ýòèõ
öåííîñòåé ïóñêàé çàäóìàþòñÿ òå=
êòî ïèñàë îáî ìíå íåïðàâäó\
Áåñåäó âåëà ÌÀÐÈZ ÐÎÆÊÎÂÀ
18
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23
zogierTi rCeva sadResaswaulo
magidis gaSlis Sesaxeb
TiToeuli diasaxlisi Taviseburad awyobs dResaswaulo magidas. erTs metad moswons feradi
sufra, meores ujredebiani an daCiTuli, xolo mesame upiratesobas
aniWebs TeTr sufras.
magram, miuxedavad Cveni gemovnebisa, sadResaswaulo magidas yvelaze metad uxdeba TeTri, qaTqaTa,
gaxamebuli sufra.
mizanSewonilia, sufris qveS magidas gadavafaroT sqeli qsovili,
romelic mas daicavs dazianebisagan da Tan WurWeli ar ixmaurebs.
aqve unda avRniSnoT, rom sadResaswaulo TeTr sufraze celofnis gadafareba ar aris mizanSewonili.
ra Tqma unda, sadResaswaulo
sufraze unda gamovitanoT saukeTeso WurWeli. sasurvelia sufris gawyoba mTliani serviziT erTsaxovani moyvanilobis da
feris WurWliT. sadResaswaulo
sufraze pirveli Tavi saWmeli
ZiriTadad ar miitaneba, amitom
Rrma TefSebis dawyoba ar aris
saWiro. magidaze vawyobT or TefSs, ZiriTadi cxeli saWmelebisaT-
vis da zemodan patara TefSs
sauzmisaTvis.
Tu magidis gaSla gvsurs yvela
wesebis dacviT, rogorc TefSebis
raodenoba, aseve dana-Cangali da
Wiqebi unda daiwyos ramdenime
saxis, imis mixedviT, ramdeni Tavi
saWmeli da sasmelia, magram ufro
moxerxebulia SemovifargloT
ori saxis TefSiT.
Semdeg valagebT dana-Cangals;
danas vdebT TefSis marjvena mxares, galesili piri TefSisaken;
Cangals vdebT marcxniv, amoburculi mxare qveviT. TefSis win
vdebT patara danas (xilisaTvis),
Cangals tortisa da sxva namcxvrisaTvis, Cais kovzs nayinisa da
sxva CarozisaTvis.
Wiqebs vawyobT TefSis win, odnav marjvniv, rom asaRebad moxerxebuli iyos; sasurvelia Wiqebi
iyos erTi saxis, gansxvavebuli
mxolod zomiT.
bolo dros xmarebaSia qaRaldis xelsaxocebi, magram sadResaswaulo magidaze mizanSewonilia
qsovilis xelsaxocebi, romlebic
SeiZleba davdoT TefSze zevidan,
gasufTavebuli, garecxili
frinveli qvabSi movaTavsoT,
davasxaT wyali, davdgaT cecxlze da naxevrad movxarSoT.
mere amoviRoT wvenidan, davdoT
Tunuqis furcelze da SevdgaT
airRumelSi Sesawvavad.
bulions movxadoT cximi da
masSi movSuSoT xorcsakep manqanaSi gatarebuli xaxvi. SuSvis
dros davamatoT bulionidan moxdili cximi da Tan vurioT, rom
ar daiwvas. roca odnav vardisfers
miiRebs, CavasxaT bulionSi.
nigozi xorcsakep manqanaSi
orjer gavataroT.
yviTeli yvavili (zafrana) kargad davnayoT marilTan erTad,
CavanayoT niori, avurioT nigozSi
da xeliT vsrisoT, sanam sakmao
raodenobis zeTs ar gamovxdiT.
calke davnayoT nigozTan erTad
ucxo suneli, dariCini, mixaki, qinZis
marcvlebi, wiwaka.
yvelaferi es gavxsnaT Tbil
bulionSi, kargad movurioT,
gavataroT sacerSi da davdgaT
nel cecxlze mosaxarSad.
ori kvercxis guli gavxsnaT
erT sufris kovz ZmarSi da roca
sacivi TiTqmis mzad iqneba, nela
CavasxaT da Tan sul vurioT, rom
ar agveWras. aduRebamde CavawyoT
Sig naWrebad daWrili Semwvari
indauri an qaTami da wamoduRebisTanave gadmovdgaT cecxlidan.
roca mzad iqneba, sacivi amoviRoT
langarze da sufraze mitanis win
movasxaT nigvzidan gamoxdili
zeTi.
gverdiT da mivceT sxvadasxva
forma. magidaze calke SeiZleba
mivitanoT qaRaldis xelsaxocebic, specialuri CasalageblebiT.
sufris gasalamazeblad SeiZleba davdgaT ramdenime larnaki
yvavilebiT. diasaxlisTan axlos
saWiroa idges patara magida, sadac moTavsdeba sxvadasxva WurWeli da sufrisaTvis saWiro sagnebi.
civi saWmeli adreve lagdeba
magidaze. centralur adgilebSi
idgmeba ojaxis safirmo saWmelebi,
iseTnairad, rom sufris yvela
wevrma advilad dainaxos da
miwvdes gadmosaRebad. aqve idgmeba
sxvadasxva saxis sawebelebi- marili, mdogvi da sxva.
puri iWreba Txel, patara naWrebad da miitaneba specialuri
sapureTi an Cveulebrivi TefSebiT.
Tu stumrad gewvevaT 5-6 kaci,
cxeli saWmeli idgmeba magidaze
didi langariT, xolo Tu sufra
mravalricxovania, saWiroa Camotareba. magidis TiToeul wevrTan
mitana xdeba marcxena mxridan
da stumari langaridan Tavad
iRebs saWmels sasurveli raodenobiT.
mWadi da Romi magidaze miitaneba cxlad. mWadi sasurvelia patar-patara gamocxves, rom daWra
ar dasWirdes. mWadebi lagdeba
indauris an
qaTmis sacivi
indauri an qaTami
nigozi _ 500-500grami
xaxvi _ 4-5 Tavi
zafrana _ 2 Cais kovzi
ucxo suneli _ 4C/k
xmeli qinZi _ 2 C/k
mixaki _ 3-4 cali
dariCini _ 1 Cais kovzi
niori _ 4 kbili
Zmari _ 1 sufris kovzi
naxarSi wveni _ 10 Cais Wiqa
marili, wiwaka _ gemovnebiT.
rbili xorci _ 1 kilogrami
kombosto _ 1 kilogrami
brinji _ 0,5Cais Wiqa
pamidori _ 1 kilogrami
xaxvi _ 3-4 Tavi
kvercxi _ 2 cali
mwvanili, pilpili,
marili _ gemovnebiT
cxvris xorci _ 1kg
xaxvi _ 5 Tavi,
brinji _ 1 Cais Wiqa,
qinZi, niori, wiwaka,
tyemali (kvawaraxi, maSarabi),
pilpili, marili _ gemovnebiT.
lobio movxarSoT Cveulebrivi wesiT, mxolod ise, rom
Zalian ar CaiSalos. gadavwuroT naxarSi, davnayoT nigozi, niori, xmeli suneli, qinZis Tesli, marili, wiwaka, gavxsnaT ZmarSi
da avurioT moxarSul lobioSi ise, rom lobios marcvlebi ar
daiWylitos. gadavitanoT langarze da zevidan movayaroT rgolebad daWrili xaxvi, wvrilad daWrili qinZi da oxraxuSi.
purTan erTad, Romi miitaneba
patara sauzmis TefSebiT.
sasmelis boTlebi, garda Sampanurisa, sufraze mitanis win gaixsneba.
kargad garecxili xili specialuri larnakebiT Caidgmeba. Tu
sufra mravalricxovania, xili
ganawildeba ramdenime adgilas.
tkbileulis mitanis win saWiroa sufridan aviRoT daclili
WurWeli, saweblebi da sxva. aseve
unda mosufTavdes magidis safari.
naxmari TefSebis, dana-Canglis
da sxva WurWlis Secvla saWiroa
moxdes swrafad da xmauris
gareSe.
xinkali
Roris, an cxvris xorcis rbili naWrebi davWraT da
xaxvTan erTad xorcsakep manqanaSi gavataroT. avurioT Sig
danayili pilpili, marili, oxraxuSi, qinZi, qondari, imdeni
Tbili wyali, ramdensac Seiwovs xorci (daaxloebiT erTi
Cais Wiqa).
movziloT magari comi odnav mariliani naxevari litri
wyliTa da kvercxiT. kargad gavabrtyeloT, gamovWraT
specialuri xis saWrisiT da kidev gavabrtyeloT. TiToeul
comze movaTavsoT erTi sufris kovzi momzadebuli xorci,
napirebi SemovukecoT, movgrixoT da kuWi davtkepnoT ise,
rom moxarSvis dros ar gaixsnas. ase momzadebuli xinklebi
CavyaroT marilian mduRare wyalSi da vxarSoT; qvabi
xangamoSvebiT vatrialoT, rom xinkali Zirze ar miekras.
roca yvela xinkali wylis zeviT amotivtivdeba, kidev
xuTi wuTi vaduRoT da amovalagoT qafqiriT.
sufraze xinkalTan erTad mivitanoT danayili pilpili.
Roris mwvadi
cxvris
xorcis xarSo
msuqani cxvris xorci davWraT, gavrecxoT, CavyaroT qvabSi,
davamatoT dakepili xaxvi, davdgaT cecxlze da movSuSoT. davasxaT
mduRare wyali, imdeni, rom xorci kargad daifaros. CavyaroT
darCeuli da kargad garecxili brinji. SevazavoT danayili
nivriT, qinZiT, wiwakiT da mariliT. davumatoT gamzadebuli
tyemlis sawebeli, kvawaxari an maSarabi, pilpili da vxarSoT ,
sanam xorci mzad ar iqneba.
rubrikis premiera
Roris an cxvris
xorci 1 kg,
xaxvi_5 Tavi,
marili_gemovnebiT,
mwvanili, pilpili,
kvercxi_1 cali.
xorcis tolma
xorcis rbili naweri xaxvTan erTad orjer gavataroT
xorcsakep manqanaSi, davamatoT marili, pilpili, umi brinji,
wvrilad daWrili sxvadasxva mwvanili, gaTqvefili kvercxi
da erTad kargad avziloT.
kombostos Tavi saTiTao foTlebad davarCioT, movaWraT
magari nawilebi, CavdoT aduRebul wyalSi da 3-5 wuTis ganmavlobaSi gavTuTqoT. Semdeg TiToeul Kombostos foTolSi
SevaxvioT gamzadebuli xorcis gufTebi, CavalagoT qvabSi, davasxaT Zvlebisgan miRebuli bulioni an cota wyali, davamatoT
xorcsakep manqanaSi gatarebuli pamidori (an erTi Wiqa tomati)
da davdgaT mosaxarSad. roca mzad iqneba, langarze amoviRoT
da zed Tavisi naxarSi wveni gadavasxaT.
Tqveni
Semwvari goWi
msuqani Roris xorci (umjobesia zurgis neknebiani mxare,
barklis naWeri da sxva) davWraT
saSualo zomis naWrebad, movayaroT marili da SevdgaT macivarSi ramodenime saaTiT. Semdeg
wamovagoT Samfurze da SevwvaT
nakverCxalze; Samfuri sul vatrialoT. roca mwvadi mzad iqneba,
movayaroT mrgvlad daWrili xaxvi da SemovuwyoT oxraxuSis
foTlebi. sufraze mwvadTan erTad, calke, mivitanoT broweulis
an tyemlis sawebeli.
goWi kargad gavasufTavoT, gavrecxoT, wavusvaT marili muclis
RruSi da garedan. Zalian wmindad davnayoT winaswar cxel wyalSi dambali wiwaka, niori, qinZi, kama, oxraxuSi, rehani. es yvelaferi
gavxsnaT nigvzidan gamoxdil zeTSi da goWs wavusvaT rogorc
SigniT, aseve gareTac. am naerTis magier, Sewvis dros SeiZleba
xangamoSvebiT wavusvaT erbo an wyali. goWi SeiZleba Seiwvas
rogorc RumelSi, aseve nakverCxalze, Samfurze wamocmuli.
lobio nigvziT
lobio _ 1 kilogrami
qinZis Tesli _ 2 Cais kovzi
xaxvi _ 2 Tavi
oxraxuSi, qinZi _ 4-4 Ziri
nigozi _ 2 Cais Wiqa
xmeli suneli _ 2 Cais kovzi
Zmari _ 0,5 Cais Wiqa
marili, niori,
wiwaka _ gemovnebiT
vhfdfk
f[fk otkc!
24
cxeli agvistos dila Tendeboda CineTis dedaqalaqSi, rodesac safrangeTis aviaxazebis
TviTmfrinavi aTsaaTiani frenis
Semdeg naxevari saaTis dagvianebiT pekinis aeroportSi daeSva.
vidre evropelebma Cveuli samadlobeli taSi Semokres da dinjad qamrebis Sexsnis brZanebas
elodnen, Cinelebi ukve (CemTvis
samSoblodan cnobili sulswrafobiT) „abargebuliyvnen“, anu
TviTfrinavis xelbargis ganyofilebidan CanTebic gadmoeRoT,
mobiluri telefonebic CaerToT
da mujlugunebis rtymeviT jer
kidev moZraobaSi myofi manqanis
karisaken ikafavdnen gzas. „bevrni
arian da amgvari meTodebiT cxovroben“ - amixsna Semdgom CineTSi mcxovrebma Cvenma Tanamemamulem, rodesac taqsis gaCerebisas
Cemi gancvifrebuli saxe SeniSna. „bavSvobidan aswavlian, rom
brZolaa cxovreba, yovel nabijze unda ibrZolo, moaswro, gza
gaikafo“, xoda, esenic ibrZvian skolaSi, saxlSi, TviTfrinavSi,
quCaSi, bazarSi... arada, dameTanxmebiT, didi vaJkacoba unda,^ebrZolo miliard an Tundac mxolod Sens qalaqSi Tu ubanSi
mcxovreb ramodenime milion kacs.
am brZolaSi iyvnen Cveni umcrosi (raRa dros sabWoTa kavSiria da axla, albaT, ukve ufrosi) „Zmebi“, rodesac TviTfrinavi SeCerda, kari gaiRo da saloni saswauli siswrafiT dacarielda – CineTis moqalaqeebisaTvis aTi, xolo sxva qveynebis SvilebisaTvis sami sapasporto Semowmebis punqti eloda CamosulT. kargia, sakuTar
xalxs did pativs scemen-meTqi,
vifiqre da CvenTvis gamoyofil
grZel rigSi Cavdeqi. Tanac guli damwyda, vercerT qveyanaSi
ver aRmovCndi „mokle rigSi“.
evropis, amerikis da ager aziis
aeroportebSic im „sxva erovnebaTa“ Soris viyavi, saguldagulo
sapasporto Semowmebas rom saWiroeben da dausrulebel rigSi
rom icdian. sasaciloa, magram saqarTveloSic „grZel rigianebi“
isev Cven, qarTvelebi varT xolme...
ucxoeTis civ qveynebSi mcxovrebi qarTvelebi mzis, siTbos siyvaruliT da sicxis amtanobiT
viwonebT Tavs maSin, rodesac evropis qveynebSi sicxes miuCveveli mosaxleoba maRali temperaturis gamo iRupeba. amas nebismieri qarTveli daikvexnis-Tqo,
megona, visac zafxulis Tveebi
Cvens dedaqalaqSi gautarebia. magram is, rac aeroportidan gamosvlisas qalaqSi trialebs,
sicxed veRar iwodeba, amas albaT raime Cinuri sityva Tu aRwers, Torem qarTuli? albaT
vera. es sicxea pekinis mosaxle-
oba mxolod Ramis samossa da
sacvlebSi rom gamohyavs quCebSi, fexiT mosiaruleT maisurs
rom akecinebs mkerdamde, asobiT
velosipediT mgzavrs sagzao moZraobis ganurCevlad sxvadasxva
mimarTulebiT dabneulebs rom
daatarebs da daRlilebs iqve
gzis piras mxar-TeZoze wamowolils rom aZinebs.
Tumca vidre daiZinebdnen Wamis droa CineTSi... Wama ki,
mogexsenebaT, yvelaze wminda da
mTavari ritualia mTels 9,6
milion kvadratuli kilometris farTobze (aki mTeli msoflio mofenilia Cinuri restornebiT, Tumca aqve getyviT, rom
aqaur saWmels CvenTvis cnobil
Cinur samzareulosTan araferi
aqvs saerTo). „gaxdeba Tu ara
12:00 saaTi vercerTs veRar vpoulob, saWmelad garbian, mere ki
sZinavT zogs sad da zogs sad“
– miyveba Tavis momuSaveebze CineTis erT patara provinciaSi
moRvawe qarTveli-biznesmeni.
„taqsSi rom Cajde da 12:00
saaTi gaxdes adgilzeve Camogsvams – mSia axla meo“ - mxars
ubamdnen siciliT sxvebic. Znelad
Tu i povi restoranSi adgils
dRis Tormetsa Tu saRamos eqvs
saaTze, anu im dros nebismieri
fenis warmomadgeneli Cineli nebismier gadaudebel saqmes gadadebs da msoflios nebismier qveyanaSi cnobil kerZebs Seeqceva.
Tuki bedma gagiRimaT da restoranSi adgili gamonaxeT, saTnod
mogemsaxurebian da „Tavzec dagadgebian“ momsaxure gogo-biWebi. „Tavze dagadgebiano“? – gagikvirdebaT albaT. diax, isini
mTeli Wamis ganmavlobaSi didi
pativiT TvalebSi Semogcqerian,
raTa egreve daakmayofilon Tqveni
nebismieri survili.
didi qalaqis daTvalierebis
Semdeg piradad Cemi survili
maTi samzareulos gasinjva iyo.
didxans vcdilobdiT mSierni Cinuri joxebiT saWmlis piramde
mitanas (Tanac Suris TvaliT
vuyurebdiT gverdze magidasTan
msxdom Cinelebs brinjis TiToeul marcals rom krefdnen TefSidan), Semdeg moTminebis fiala
agvevso da Canglebi moviTxoveT. amas ki, rogorc mosalodneli iyo, iqve mdgomi oficiantebis xiTxiTi da gaxaliseba mohyva. gavnawyendi, Semdeg berlinis
erT kavkasiur restoranSi msxdomi germaneli wyvili gamaxsenda,
xinkals dana-CangliT rom miirTmevda da mec gameRima...
Wamaze mogaxsenebT da modiT
pekinis rusul ubanSi „iabalou“ze gadavinacvloT, sadac Cinur
samzareulos (albaT joxebsac)
Tu „zedmet yuradRebas“ gamoqceul da rusul restorans Se-
nino xabelaSvilis reportaJi
zez.bfyb xbytsblfy
5
milioni
iq, sadac
sadac milioni
iq,
kaci erT
erT koncerts
koncerts eswreba
eswreba
kaci
kedlebul yofili sabWoTa kavSiris qveynebis warmomadgenlebs
SexvdebiT. calke darbazSi gancalkevebuli, aq TxuTmeti qarTveli CineTis qarTuli saTvistomos daarsebas aRniSnavda. sul
ramodenime Tvis winaT CineTis
dedaqalaqSi saqarTvelos saelCo gaixsna (Cvens samSoblos dResdReobiT miliardian qveyanaSi
ori kaci warmoadgens da saelCosa Tu sakonsulos muSakTa
yvela saqmianobas iTavsebs). gawkrialebul oTxsarTulian SenobaSi Sekrebili stumrebi saelCos sakuTrebaSi myof xuT skams
iyofdnen. didi CineTis sxvadasxva kuTxeebidan saTvistomos dasaarseblad Camosul qarTvelebs
elCi miesalma, skamebis ukmarisobaze bodiSi mouxada (dasZina,
rom avejs xval moitandnen aucileblad) da axlad daarsebuli warmomadgenlobis gegmebs, CineTis provinciebsa da saqarTvelos sxvadasxva kuTxeebis damegobrebaze esaubreboda. saTvistomos arsebobis aucilebloba
gamoikveTa. Tavmjdomaris kandidatura dasaxelda, iqve erTxmad
airCa da Sekrebilebma zemoT xsenebul rusul restoran „elefantSi“ gadavinacvleT, sadac am
TariRis aRsaniSnavad daqiravebuli darbazi, rusuli kerZebi
da Cineli oficiantebi elodnen stumrebs.
sasiamovno saRamo Sesdga, sadRegrZeloebi RviniTa da iqve, CineTis erT-erT provinciaSi Camosxmuli qarTuli koniakiT ismeoda. studentebi, qarTul-Cinuri ojaxebi, biznesmenebi Tu
saelCos warmomadgenlebi Tavi-
anT „Cinur gamocdilebas“ uziarebdnen erTmaneTs. „Citebi araa
am qveyanaSi, Citebi“ – Tavis gulistkivils warmosTqvamda erTi. „Tu gindaT ganaxebT saidan
midis saqoneli lilos bazrobaze“ – gvTavazobda meore. „qarTveli gagiJebula da sagiJeTSi
waiyvanes, saqarTveloSi unda gadavafrinoT“ – Cioda elCi. dasasruls erTi-ori qarTuli simRerac SeukveTes, savizito baraTebic gacvales, saTvistomos
sxvadasxva warmomadgenlebic daasaxeles da daiSalnen qarTvelebi, did CineTSi momavali Sexvedris imediT.
meore dilis 8 saaTze saelCos mZRoli siao iao ukve CineTis cnobili kedlisaken miaqanebda manqanas. sakmaod mxiaruli xalxi aRmoCnda Cemi Tanamgzavrebi. siao Cinurad batonsac da qalbatonsac niSnavso,
gvixsnida Cveni qarTveli Tanamgzavris Cineli meuRle, romelic mZRolTan urTierTobaSi
gvexmareboda. Cinur kedels bevri misadgomi aqvso, fexiT gnebavT asvla Tu sabagiro gziTo
- gvekiTxeboda. yvelas 6.350 kmis sigrZis, msoflioSi yvelaze
didi nageboba warmogvidga Tvalwin da erTxmad sabagiro gzaze
davTanxmdiT. Cemi Tanamgzavrebi
TavianTi „Cinuri TavgadasavlebiTa“ da qveynis ambebiT ar mawyendnen gzaSi. erT istorias
Tqvenc giambobT, Tavad gansajeT
simarTlea igi Tu ara, gamogitydebiT, amis dadgena gamiWirda.
„es ambavi didi xnis winaT
moxda. CineTis mTavrobas beRurebi „qveynis mtrebad“ Seuracxia, gadauwyvetia rom maT ziani
moaqvT bunebisaTvis, maTi gadaSeneba ganuzraxia da am saqmeSi
mTeli CineTis mosaxleoba Caubia. beRura didxans ver dafrinavs, igi dro da dro unda Camojdes sadme, Torem mokvdeba“ –
ganagrZobda Txrobas Tanamgzavri. „mTeli CineTis mosaxleoba
saxlebidan gamosula, 2 saaTis
ganmavlobaSi jam-WurWlebiT xmauri autexavT, raTa beRurebi SiSiT versad Camomjdariyvnen... ase
amowyvites CineTSi beRurebi“.
saxeze etyoba cota undobloba
Semetyo. „damijereT, es yvelaferi saxelmwifo doneze xdeboda. amis gamo qveyanaSi uamravi mweri momravlda. mixvdnen, rom
didi Secdoma Caidines da Semdeg
beRurebi kanadidan Seisyides“.
erT saaTiani gza Zalzed gagveWima. rogorc Cans im SabaT
dRes ramodenime milionma mosaxlem sakuTari qveynis siamayis, didi kedlis monaxuleba moisurva, ris gamoc sagzao moZraoba ramodenime saaTiT SeCerda.
im dRes CineTis kedelze ver
movxvdiT...
qalaqi, romelSic
ar aris mze
pekini – qalaqi, romelic „yovelTvis ara, magram xSirad“ CineTis dedaqalaqi iyo, sididiT
Sanhais Semdeg meorea qveyanaSi.
turistisaTvis qalaqSi gadaadgilebis saukeTeso saSualeba
taqsia, romlis Rirebulebac evropuli qveynebis saqalaqo mgzavrobis tolfasia. mTavaria mxolod mZRols gaagebinoT sad
gsurT wasvla, an Sesabamis mosaxvevSi Sesabamisi xeliT mianiSnoT Sexveva.
pekinelebis saamayo adgili
(Tumca ki taqsis mZRolebisaTvis mainc rTulad asaxsneli) –
„akrZaluli qalaqia“. 723.633
kvadratuli metris nageboba, sididiT msoflios yvela samefo
sasaxles aRemateba. 500 wlis
ganmavlobaSi „akrZaluli qalaqi“ Cinel kaizerTa dinastiis
rezidencias warmoadgenda. misi
yvela 9.999 oTaxi xisa da qvisagan aris naSenebi da sistemurad ganlagebuli. „akrZaluli
qalaqi“, romlis teritoriazec
Cveulebriv mokvdavs fexis dadgmis ufleba ar hqonda (aqedanve
modis misi saxelic), 52 metris
siRrmis TxriliTa da 10 metris simaRlis galavniTaa garSemortymuli.
1911 wels revoluciis Semdeg miuxedavad qingTa dinastiis ukanaskneli kaizeris damxobisa, mas da mis ojaxs sasaxleSi darCenis neba darTes. respublikelTa jarebma ki, kaizeris
STamomavlebi 1924 wels sabolood gandevnes qalaqidan da
igi yvelasaTvis misawvdom muzeumad aqcies. yovelTvis xalxmravlobaa am odesRac wynar
samflobeloSi, fotoaparatebiT
momarjvebulebs TiTqos 500
wlis saidumloebis amoxsna
surT. qalaqi-muzeumi sigrZeSi
960, xolo siganeSi 750 metria,
ase rom, visac aqaurobis monaxuleba gsurT, girCevT sportuli fexsacmliT mobrZandeT.
Tuki zemoTTqmuli farTobis
gadalaxvas SesZlebT, „akrZaluli qalaqis“ samxreTiT pekinis
centrs - zeciuri mSvidobis anu
tiananmenis, msoflios yvelaze
did (40 heqtarian) moedans miadgebiT. xumroba xom ar aris, mravali istoriul TariRTa mematiane moedani milion kacs itevs!
dResdReobiT moedani 1989 wlis
4 ivnisis mogonebad rCeba mosaxleobaSi, im sisxliani dRisa,
rodesac mSvidobian demonstraciasa da demokratiis lozungebs aTasobiT studenti Seewira.
tiananmenis moednis SuagulSi saxalxo gmirTaTvis miZRvnili Zeglia. maT mosagoneblad,
25
agebuli erTaderTi sasazRvro
xazia, SeuiaraRebeli TvaliT rom
dainaxav Turme kosmosidan. Cvens
w.aR.me-5 saukuneSi dawyebuli
nagebobis mSenebloba me-16 saukuneSi dasrulda mxolod. dResdReobiT SemorCenili nawilebi
rom gadaabaT, niu-iorkidan losanjelesamde gastans, misi qvebisagan xuTi metris simaRlisa
da erTi metri siRrmis aSenebuli galavani ki TviT dedamiwis
garSemowirulobaze meti iqneboda. rac ufro maRla midixar,
miT ufro rTuldeba gza, cicabo aRmarTidan uceb saxifaTo
daRmarTad iqceva kedeli, mTebs
efareba da isev Cndeba, warmoudgenel sigrZeze iWimeba da sadRac SoreTSi ikargeba.
rom mTlad ar gadaiRaloT
TiToeul galavanTan gasarTobi
saSualebebi, ukeT rom vTqvaT,
`fulis maxeebi“ geliT. gnebavT
aqlemTan gadagiReben suraTs, gnebavT Cinur nacionalur tanisamoss Cagacmeven, Tqvens saxels
amotvifraven medalionze an sulac sertifikats mogcemen, imis
dasturad, rom CineTis did kedelze iyaviT (egeb am ukanasknelis gamo mainc ar gamiwyreT, am
gasarTobebs „fulis maxe“ rom
vuwode). Tuki „evropuli garegnobisa“ brZandebiT da Tmis Ria
feric giwyobT xels, Tavadac
„fotodekoraciad“ iqceviT da
droulad Tu ar daaRwieT Tavi
(an Cinelma Tanamgzavrma Tu ar
gixsnaT) naxevar dRes Rimilsa
da pozirebaSi gaatarebT.
uyureb monRolebisagan Tavis
dasacavad, xalxis dasasaqmeblad
Tu raime sxva mizniT agebul
kedels, gaoceba (amave dros SiSi) da aRtaceba gi pyrobs, Tundac mxolod imaze fiqris gamo,
rom yovelive es adamianis xeliTaa Sewmnili. qalaqidan 7080 kilometriT moSorebuli kedlidan ulamazesi buneba geSleba win, aqedan mzec ki sCans...
***
saelCoSi Sepirebuli aveji
moitanes, Tqvenma amdeni xnis
megzurma Cinuri joxebis gamoyenebac viswavle da taqsis mZRolisaTvis saxlis gzis miniSnebac. es yvelaferi ki imas niSnavs, rom nel-nela CineTis datovebis droc axlovdeba, qveynisa, romelic daujereblad swrafi ganviTarebis fazaSia. „eseni
brZoliT ara, eseni sxva gziT
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dai pyroben msoflioso“ – amboben CineTSi mcxovrebi sxva eris
Svilebi.
dabinZurebul quCebs, samanqano gzis gayolebaze saWmlis
momzadebel mcxovreblebs, SiSveli xeliT nagvis gadamrCev muSakebs, daxeuli tansacmliT fexSiSvelad mosiarule bavSvebs,
uaxlesi holivudis filmebis
TiTo dolarad gamyidvelebs, muyaoTi naSeneb barakebs, nacionaluri mZafri sunelebiT gaJRenTil haers cvlis sul raRac
ukanasknel 20 weliwadSi aRmocenebuli udidesi movlili savaWro saxlebi, caTambrjenebi,
msoflioSi wamyvani firmebis
warmomadgenlobebi, RamiT ganaTebuli reklamebi, turistuli
ubnebi da CinelebisaTvis sayvareli „karaoke-barebi“. baridan
gamosulebs cota simarjve gmarTebT, raTa Tvens mier gaCerebul
taqsSi uceb Tqvens Semdeg mosulma Cinelma ar amoyos Tavi.
„sxvisi Svilebi ar kvdebiano“ anu Cveneburad „jer Tavo da
Tavoo“, aris Zveli Cinuri andaza da, rogorc Cans, Cinuri cxovrebis axali filosofia.
fmflehb
qdsft,f
ntktjcrfhb
vlbyfht lfcfdkts
wbv,bhib
da iswavloT „bu iao“ - „ar
minda“. ara mgonia, es uari axevinebdeT maT ukan, ubralod turistis mier warmoTqmuli es
ori Cinuri sityva imdenad axalisebT, rom isic ki aviwydebaT,
romeli saqonlis gasaRebas lamobdnen. verc Jestebis eniT „waxvalT Sors“ CineTis bazrobebze
– Cveneburi ori gaSlili mtevnis nacvlad, isini erTi Sekruli muWiT ganiSneben „10“-ze, „9“
ki muWiTa da moRunuli saCvenebeli TiTiT aRiniSneba da a.S.
isev mcireodeni Cinuris swavla mogiwevT, rac, rogorc aq mcxovrebi ucxoelebi gvajereben,
rTuli sulac ar unda iyos,
miTumetes, roca zmnas arc piris da arc ricxvis niSnebi
gaaCnia. sirTule „mxolod“ am
upiro da urcxvo zmnebis marTebul gamoTqmaSi mdgomareobs.
„ni hao“ - esalmebian erTmaneTs
Cinelebi, es swored is aucilebeli mciredia (raTqmaunda, Wamas anu „CJ“-s Tu ar CavTvliT,
Tanac frTxilad, Torem „jJ“ –
ukve sul sxva ramea) yvela aq
Camosulma rom unda icodes. moxvdebiT CineTSi - aucileblad
estumreT aqaur bazrobebs, sadac adgilzeve damzadebul „dolCe gabanasa“ da „guCis“, „armanisa“ da „kardenis“ nebismier
sagansa Tu samoss SemogTavazeben da Tqveni Sesabamisi zomis
iarliysac oriode wuTSi, Tanac
iqve, fardis ukan migikereben.
saRamovdeba did qalaqSi, Tumca amas verc CamobindebiT da
verc mzis CasvliT SeatyobT, iseve rogorc mzis amosvliT ver
SeigrZnobT pekinSi axali dRis
dabadebas. smogiT dafaruli da
dabinZurebuli qalaqis binadarni
mzes ver xedaven, iseve rogorc
ver xedaven cis silurjes da,
rogorc amboben, Citebs...
didi kedeli –
nageboba, romelic
kosmosidanac ki Cans
siao iao ukve mesamed daadga
qveynis didi saocrebisaken mimaval gzas. kedlis sidiades maSin
SeigrZnob, Seni fexiT rom axval
zedo agvixsnes maspinZlebma, is
ki ver gviTxres, ra mizniT Sendeboda igi.
CineTis kedeli kacis xeliT
vevkb
ve[fcfj7 888=
vinc mTavrobaSi komunistebis
mosvlamde, CineTis damoukideblobisaTvis uricxv brZolebSi
Tavi gaswires. am Zeglis saZirkvelSi pirvelma mao Zedunma moaqcia Turme qva, Tanac mxolod
erTi dRiT adre, vidre CineTi
saxalxo respublikad gamocxaddeboda. amorCeuli adgilmdebareobiT, es 40 metris obeliski,
romlis mSeneblobaSic 10.000
tona qva iqna gamoyenebuli, Zvel
feodalur warsulTan gamomSvidobebis simboloa.
mao Zeduni vaxsene da ageraa
igic - tiananmenis karibWeze oqrosfer CarCoSi Casmuli Tu iqve,
mopirdapire mxares - mavzoleumSi gansvenebuli. vidre misTvis
Tvalis Sevlebis nebas dagrTavdnen, CanTebisa da fotoaparatebis Cabareba da, raRa Tqma unda,
rigSi dgoma mogiwevT. erTxel
Sevcdi da leninis mavzoleumSi
Sevatyuebine Tavi eqskursiamZRol moxuc qalbatons. Cems
ukan, masxovs, axalgazrda kaci
idga: „erTi is adamiani manaxeT
mTeli bavSvoba rom Camimwarao“.
mimixvdebodiT Tavad, es ambavi
90-iani wlebis dasasruls iyo,
aba manamde aseT xalxmraval adgilas ki ara, sakuTar saZinebelSi
ganmartoebulic veravin gabedava msgavsi ramis Tqmas. sityva
gamigrZelda... mokled am jerad
verc didi maos naxvis cdunebam
mZlia da verc Cineli eqskursiamZRolis mosmenis survilma.
aziuri bazrobebis saxeli didadaa ganTqmuli mTels msoflioSi. marTalia vaWrobis xelovnebas nel-nela evropuli qveynebic swavloben, magram daostatebamde, rogorc CineTSi davrwmundi,
jer kidev bevri ukliaT. „aTi
procenti davaklebineo“- uxarodaT amerikelebs. „fass rom getyvian, imis naxevari unda SesTavazoo“ – aswavlidnen erTimeores germanelebi. „gamocdili“
qarTvelebi, ki dasaxelebuli fasis meoTxedad iZenen yvelafers:
„amasac Tavisi teqnika aqvs. Seni
fasi SesTavaze da Sori-axlos
dadeqi, TiTqos ukve wasvlas apireb da aucileblad dagedevnebian“. im SemTxvevisaTvis ki, Tu
dadevnebul gamyidvels veRar
icilebT, Cinuri ori sityva un-
26
rani varT qarTvelebi?
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ara yofila advili
warsulis gadaviwyeba~
jildas gza ar arevia! ufali Tavis samflobeloSi sacxovreblad angelozebs arCevda
da jildac iq aris albaT...
ai, gza-areuli ki, es meramdene welia Cven
davborialobT ucxo napirebs... mxrebze wlebTan erTad Tovlic gvaTovs da im dalocvil
Tovlian Tbiliss mxolod sizmrebSiRa vxedavT.
- sizmrebi xdeba xolme-o, gamigia...
`Tovlisferi Tbilisis~ sizmari amixdine,
RmerTo!
manuCar kaWaxiZe
- albaT rionis qvena dinebis siswrafidan, mtkvris darbaisluri dudunidan,
engurisa da Tergis Tavawyvetili Tavdaviwyebidan, mzis sxivebi erTmaneTTan
TamaSSi rom brWyvialeben da asarkeben
wylis zedapirs, Tan qvebis qviur guls
rom aTboben; iqneb svanuri koSkis kenwerodan simaRleebis aRmafreniT aRtacebuli da jixvis rqaSi Cawuruli
qarTuli sisxlis momuSakebidan - locva romaa sadRegrZeloSi CamoZerwili
da ena-mWevriT gadmocemuli; sveticxovlis saZirkvelSi wmida sidonias mklavebSi gansvenebuli CvenTvis wilad rgunebuli macxovris kvarTidan, xelisguliviT patara, magram ukidegano siyvarulidan, ticiani rom ityoda: `neta
sada aqvs am zvarebs bolo, vin dargo
erTad amdeni vazi, sjobs aRar gqondes
sulac samSoblo, anda ar iyos ase lamazi~.
m. kaWaxiZe, me-2 gverdze
vf[fhj,tkb
wuxelis biWi dabadebula,
gadaWarbebad Tu ar CamiTvliT,
iseTi biWi dabadebula,
daurqmeviaT Turme daviTi!
wuxelis biWi dabadebula,
daurqmeviaT imisTvis – cotne,
Sen – orgulobav, aba gabede
da guli Cveni iseve kortne.
wuxelis SoTac dabadebula,
dabadebula Turme demetre,
gangebav, Cveni saqarTvelosTvis
ra sixaruli gamoimete!
wuxel cis kari cxrave gaaRo
yvela gmirma da Tavdadebulma,
dabadebula Turme vaxtangi,
wuxel demetre dabadebula.
saqarTvelos ca, isec maRali,
ufrore metad amaRlebula,
dabadebula mTvare-giorgi,
Turme ilia dabadebula!
wuxelis mteri –
erTpirad Cveni
mospobis mdomi – dadardebula;
dabadebula Turme sulxani,
grigol xanZTeli dabadebula.
dabadebula biWi paata.
gaTenebula wuxelis TeTrad:
dabadebula samasi gmiri,
viT daixocnen,
iseve erTad!
wuxelis gogoc dabadebula,
cis nami, cisfrad nakamkamari,
iseTi gogo dabadebula,
daurqmeviaT Turme Tamari.
dabadebula wuxelis nino
da qeTevani dabadebula.
is bneli Rame Turme uecrad
RvTiuris naTliT ganaTlebula.
yvela zRapari – naocnebari
axdenila da gamarTlebula:
dabadebula Turme nestani
da TinaTini dabadebula.
da gixaroden!
qarTvelTa Soris
RviZl ZmaTa xidi kvlav gadebula
da erTiani, nanatri drois,
qarTli xelaxla dabadebula!
anzor abulaSvili
2
hbc
j
n
m
f
htl
a
i
r
o
t
a
r
o
b
a
l
eris funqcia
maradisobis
sakurTxevelTan
istorias uyvars raindebi da
gmirebi, maTi arsebobiT aris lamazi TviT istoria, igi uwyobs
xels gmirisa da raindis warmoSobas rogorc realur xilvad
qmnilebas da rogorc xelovnurad konkretuli momentisaTvis
warmoSobils, an sulac sapnis
operasaviT aTasnair qrobadi ferumzoliT Sekowiwebul-Selamazebuls. mas dro ar qmnis, mas
epoqa qmnis da Tavisi ideologiuri winsarT-bolosarTebiT (dros
moaqvs epoqa, epoqas ki saarsebod
sWirdeba Tavisi ideologiis Sesaferisi zneobrivi magaliTi, romliTac gamyarebuli iqneba epoqa
droSi). cxovrebas azri maSin
aqvs, rodesac gmiris, mefis, wmindanis cxovrebiT eqstazirebuli
(zog SemTxvevaSi egzaltirebuli)
eri (zog SemTxvevaSi - brbo) Tavisi bunebrivi monacemebiT erovnul energiaSi erTiani muxtiT
ikvreba da umagaliTo, epoqaluri
mniSvnelobis Zvrebi xdeba.
gmiris SeqmniT eri RmerTs
eZebs, - iseTs, rogoric TviT gmiria. amiT ikiTxeba ama Tu im epoqaSi eris zneobrioba. mTavaria
am ZiebaSi ar damaxinjdes RmerTi,
radgan ar daiSalos eris suli.
suli samSoblos usazRvro
SegrZnebaa, ukidures SemTxvevaSi
nostalgias rom warmoSobs dauokebelsa da sulis SemxuTvels.
saidan iwyeba samSoblo, siyvaruli rom Wirdeba?!
albaT rionis qvena dinebis
siswrafidan, mtkvris darbaisluri dudunidan, engurisa da Tergis
Tavawyvetili Tavdaviwyebidan,
mzis sxivebi erTmaneTTan TamaSSi
rom brWyvialeben da asarkeben
wylis zedapirs, Tan qvebis qviur
guls rom aTboben; iqneb svanuri
koSkis kenwerodan simaRleebis
aRmafreniT aRtacebuli da jixvis rqaSi Cawuruli qarTuli
sisxlis momuSakebidan - locva
romaa sadRegrZeloSi CamoZerwili da ena-mWevriT gadmocemuli,
sveticxovlis saZirkvelSi wmida
sidonias mklavebSi gansvenebuli
CvenTvis wilad rgunebuli macxovris kvarTidan (samSoblo romaa swored macxovris mistiuri
samare... da Cven odiTgan tkbil
iesoSi veZebT samSoblos da samSobloSi tkbil iesos, Tu es
urTierTSerwyma dairRva, eri
dakargavs msoflio funqcias da
mas daeSleba suli), xelisguliviT patara, magram ukidegano siyvarulidan, ticiani rom ityoda:
`neta sada aqvs am zvarebs bolo,
vin dargo erTad amdeni vazi,
sjobs aRar gqondes sulac samSoblo, anda ar iyos ase lamazi~.
gmiri da raindio, - weRan
vaxsene. wmida giorgi qarTveli
eris istoriis mTel rig epoqaTa
gmirTa gmiria, igi Cveni samSoblos sulier moZRvrad da simbolod iqca. es is SemTxvevaa, rodesac modgmas bunebrivad uCndeba
moTxovnileba gmirisa da wmindanis maradiuli saxebis wvdomisa,
raTa am gziT eziaros RmerTs da
moipovos RvTis kurTxeva,sulieri ganwmenda da TviTgadarCena.
promeTe-amiranic ki erma miTologiuri sibrZnis idumalebis
saburveliT Semosa da alegoriuli metyvelebis niuansebi SesZina
da gardasaxa gonieri eris aqtiur Zalad. xolo nacarqeqia zRapari araa, igi mTeli epoqaa mxolod qarTveli eris kuTvnili
da analogi ar moepoveba sakacobrio civilizaciaSi (nacars rom
qeqavs dReniadag, aqaoda, sakvamurs
rosebi verasodes mogvereva. es
instiqti Rrmad Cajda eris fsiqikaSi da Rrmad rom daakvirde, gasaocari da SemaZrwunebuli ulmobeloba da cinizmi ixateba Cvens
msoflWvretaSi. es zustad daafiqsira iliamac da mogvianebiT
msoflios auwya firosmanma. Tavdapirvelad gulistkiviliT aRiqvamdnen eris mamebi am Cvens Tvisebas, Semdeg ki igi samSoblos mZlavr iaraRad iqca yvela momxvduris winaSe. es aris swored
indiferentuloba. ai, mkveTri magaliTebi - Camovida puSkini, vasviT,
vaWameT, davbaneT... gvlanZRa da
gvTaTxa, Cven ki fexebze davikideT
TviT puSkini da gavagrZeleT Cveni dardimanduli yofa. ase gagr-
germaniaSic izrdeba, amerikaSic
da sadac gagexardeba. ufro metad
ki iqaurobas etanebian, sadac bevri
salafavia.
saqarTveloSi izrdebian bavSvebi, kidec uWirT da kidec
ulxinT. swavloben da aranakleb
da iqneb ukeTesadac am Hitlerjugend-ze. cxovrebaSi meti warmatebebi eqnebaT da iciT ratom?
imitom, rom isini samSoblos
gamoadgebian.
Cven fsiqoTerapevtebi ar gvWirdeba!
Cven qristiani eri varT da
Cvens gulistkivils, ukanasknel
kuTxe-kunWulamde moZRvars vabarebT aRsarebaSi. Cven RmerTTan
ity
fh zbhlt,b
cfmfhsdtkjc!
kvamli ar Caqres, radgan kvamli
saTvalavia komlSi sicocxliso).
da mainc, yvela ers udgeba Tavisi arsebobis manZilze Tavisi
bediswera - funqciis dakargvis
saSiSroeba. naciis siZliere damokidebulia imasze, Tu rogor
gaumklavdeba sakuTar bedisweras.
saqarTvelom, misma mmarTvelma
klasma me-19 saukuneSi dakarga
missia, sakacobrio missia, igi amovarda msoflio ganviTarebis orbitidan, xalxi iqca luarsabebad,
- kacebad, romelnic zedapirulad
aranair codvas ar sCadian - dadian wirva-locvebze, ar mruSoben
da a.S. sinamdvileSi ki qveynis
mmarTveli elita da aristokratia moicva mconarebam. daJangda
xrmali, funqcia daekarga cxens,
brZolasTan rom igivdeboda, wesrigSi SemoiWra erisTvis ucxo
da miuRebeli niuansebi - saldafonizmi, Tavis srulmomcvelobiT.
aisaxa kidec msoflio kulturis saganZurSi es `fexebzemkidioba~ da ruseTumeoba. firosmanis
tiloebze ganuwyveteli sma-qeifebia, ganuwyveteli zarxoSi, ganuwyveteli bohema. fexebze movikideT eris sruli siduxWire da
RvinoSi vaxrCobdiT dardsa da
boRmas. RvinoSi daixrCo TviT
firosmani da galaktioni. samSoblos SegrZneba TandaTanobiT lamazi da mware sizmrad gadaiqca.
TviTdinebam msoflio katastrofamde migviyvana. revolucia zogierTi eriskacisTvis safrTxobela iyo, zogisTvisac safrTxe.
da wamovida sinamdvilis yofierebaSi aTasi antigmiri...
Sen ar Wirdebi
saqarTvelos!
Cven rogorc adre, ise axlac
vcodavT. magram genetikurad SemogvrCa iseTi Zlieri TviTgadarCenis instiqti, rom veranairi
aTasi Sah-abasebi, Temur-lengebi,
lenin-stalinebi da xruSCov-so-
Zelda lermontovTanac, tolstoisTanac da sxva mraval rus
korifeebTan mimarTebaSic. es Tviseba saukuneebis ganmavlobaSi gamoibrZmeda da dRes araTu gulis
mosvla da wyenaa informaciul
omebSi, fexebze gvkidia mavanTa
da mavanTa Sexedulebebi Cvenze.
ufro metic, TviTgadarCenisTvis,
sakuTari Tavic gvkidia fexebze,
raTa am ulmobel droSi ar gaviTeloT da ar gadagvylapos dauzogavad uxeSma da gauTvaliswinebelma msoflio axalma wesrigma
da sakacobrio movlenebma. raRac
momentSi fexebze davikideT afxazeTi, radgan gvgonia, rom ver davibrunebT da ar gvinda SevakvdeT
am uazro oms.
amdenad, am yvelafris fonze,
yalbad JRers Jurnalist Tiniko
CiTinaSvilis werilis saTaurad
wamosrolili dananeba viRac marika gorelaSvilis mimarT, romelic Tavbrudamxvev warmatebebSi
adamianis saxes kargavs (es interviu germaniaSi gamomaval JurnalSi `qarTuli~ daibeWda da
misi wakiTxva `mamulis~ mkiTxvelebs Cveni gazeTis me-13, Tars
gverdze SeuZliaT).
da raa iseTi warmatebebi, romlisTvisac is ar unda daikargos
saqarTvelosTvis?!
savsebiT araferi!
arc erTi turi, olimpiada, saCuqrebi da stipendiebi ar Rirs
im fasad, adamiani (mapatieT, da)
Rorad iqces da es Tvrameti
wlis asakSi.
saqarTveloSi rom waikiTxon
misi es interviu, merwmuneT, mas
erTi megobaric aRar darCeba.
SesaZlebelia saqarTveloze mogonebebSi daitovos biZa, bebia da
mama-papiseuli saxli, Tu es ukanasknelic sWirdeba mas, radgan
Rors samSoblo ar gaaCnia, igi
molaparake xalxi varT da ara
momaval fsiqoTerapevt marika
gorelaSvilTan. es ufro didi
saqmea da Rirseuli.
Cven wiTeli jvari gavaZeveT
saqarTvelodan, Tavsac nu Seiwuxebs igi am egidiTa da missiiT
saqarTveloSi samoRvaweod. Cveni
rCevaa - kargad iswavlos man
fizika da maTematika, gaimarjvos
turebsa da olimpiadebze, aiRos
bevri, bevrze bevri fuli, unda
amerikaSi icxovros, unda imis
iqiT.
es ki unda icodes, rom igi
saqarTvelos araferSi ar sWirdeba! dasakargi ki ara, TiTqos arc
yofila.
asea es!
saqarTvelodan bevri midioda
saswavleblad ucxo qveynebSi.
bevri ukan brundeboda mxolod
imisTvis, rom Tavisi qveynis samsaxurSi Camdgariyvnen da TavianTi
codna-gamocdileba moxmareboda
samSoblos. es xalxi didi xalxi
iyvnen da didi saxeli datoves
istoriaSi, maTi frCxilis Rirsic rom ar aris fizika-maTematikos-fsiqoTerapevti. maTi CamoTvlac ki Sors wagviyvans da sircxvili iqneba am usaxo saxis gverdiT dayeneba.
mas saqarTvelom yvelaferi
misca - swavla, ganaTleba, aRiareba,
saCuqaric (marTalia xarisxiT
naklebi, vidre aTasevroiani kompiuteri) da verafriT ver davadanaSauleb saqarTvelos, ai, esa da
es kaci ar aRiareT da iZulebuli gaxda daetovebina Tavisi qveyanao. amis Tqmis ufleba mas ara
aqvs. fulis Rorulma wyurvilma
da ampartavnebam daatovebina Tavisi yofili samSoblo (`yofili~
coli gamigia, magram samSoblos
gamocvla?!) imitom, rom samSoblos ar gaaCnda misTvis Sesaferisi jibe.
erTis moRalate sxvasac uRa-
latebs. es mis momaval mizanSic
aisaxa, roca iwinaswarmetyvela,
amerikaSi mxolod profesorad
mivdivaro.
da bolos...
dRes rom yofiliyo saqarTvelo nikofsiiTgan darubandamdis...
mainteresebs, ra poziciebze dadgeboda marika gorelaSvili?!
rom yofiliyo Zveleburad mZlavri saganmanaTleblo centrebi
saqarTveloSi, sad wavidoda
netav?!
rom hqonoda iverTa-miwas iseTi dovlaTi da siuxve, rac Tamaris dros iyo da ar gvqonoda
gamxdari saocnebod da idealad
`dro daviTis da Tamaris~, visTan
imegobrebda igi netav?!
maSin, darwmunebuli var, Roris
fsiqikidan gamomdinare mjiRebs
daicemda gulze da saqarTvelos
dRegrZelobaSi gaaTen-daaRamebda,
rogorc fuqsavati demagogi. arada, Tu samSoblos SegrZnebas ara
aqvs gadamwyveti da arsebiTi mniSvneloba, maSin analogiurad ra
mniSvneloba aqvs misTvis, vin miscems mas aTasevroian kompiuters
Tu ordRian kalkulators - germaneli, amerikeli Tu qarTveli,
petre, pavle Tu ivane. misTvis
mTavaria am SemTxvevaSi saCuqris
Rirebuleba da mas Seaqebs, vinc
ukeTes saCuqars miscems. ai, esaa
Roroba! am saqcielma wamomacdevina Cemi bagedan adamianisaTvis
yovlad uRirso sityva.
amitom arafrad miRirs misi
turebi da olimpiadebi (sxvaTaSoris, es turebi da olimpiadebi
dRemde sabWouri meTodikiTa da
paTosiT mimdinareobs);
amitom arafrad miRirs misi
stipendiebi da saCuqrebi...
amitom arafrad miRirs misi
ganswavluloba fizikaSi, maTematikaSi Tu fsiqoTerapiaSi.
ra mniSvneloba aqvs CemTvis
misi tvinis ujredi ramdenime
xaziT ufro metad Tu naklebad
iqneba daRaruli. es mxolod mas
gamoadgeba, mets aravis. verc amerikaSi ipovis igi sakuTar Tavs,
radgan TviT amerikaSi Tavsayrelad arian profesorebi da fsiqoTerapevtebi masze gacilebiT
ukeTesebi da ganaTlebulebi. igi
amerikas axals verafers SesTavazebs da amitom uxerxuli aris
Jurnalistis mxridan aseTi remarkebis gakeTeba imis mimarT, romelic safuZvelSive ganwirulia
katastrofisTvis. mas ise mouva,
rogorc Ramuras - arc frinvelebSi rom ar sweria da arc
TagvebSi.
am dReebSi saqarTvelos miwas
daubrunda samocdaTxuTmeti
wlis win bedisweris ZaliT ucxoeTSi gadaxvewili didi qarTveli patriotis qaquca ColoyaSvilis Zvlebi. da merwmuneT, am
dReebSi iveria rogorc arasdros,
iseTi Zlieri da mamaci iyo, roca
mamuliSvils samocdaTxuTmeti
wlis win dagubebuli cremliT
egebeboda mamuli. JRerda `Savlego~ da ukve axlac, amdeni xnis
Semdeg mTels ers Jruanteli uvlida tanSi.
aba mosuliyo da movides
yvela gadamTieli erTad aRebuli
Cveni samSoblos asaoxreblad...
Cven aRara varT is qarTvelebi,
damarcxebas rom SevuSindebiT!
ai, vin akeTebs did saqmes Cvens
qveyanaSi - micvalebulis Zvlebi,
da ara usaxo saxis cocxali
leSi, romlis saxelsa da gvars
arc arasodes gaixseneben. is ki
arada, arc ecodinebaT, radgan saqarTveloSi mas biZis da bebiis
meti aravin elodeba.
iqneb arc isini?!
manuCar kaWaxiZe
3
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4
2
Sexvedris dro: 2005 wlis 30 oqtomberi
Sexvedris adgili: bruklini, restorani `nacionali~
Sexvedris mizezi: gazeT `mamulis~ iubile
mayurebelTa raodenoba: 500 (xuTasi) qarTveli
ganwyoba darbazSi: qarTuli suli
sufraze: SoTis puri, kuWmaWi, nigvziani badrijani
gazeT `mamulis~ redaqtoris sityva iubileze
uCveulo da ucnauri eri varT... qarTvelebi!
wigns, iseTs `dedaena~ romaa, Zegls vudgamT...
is ki arada, yvavils, gazafxulis pirvel maxarobels, ias, qvaSi vaqandakebT... da sulsac vSTaberavT... iseTs, ymawvils rom caSi aafrens...
uCveulo varT-Tqo, ase ar daviwye?!
am bolo dros gazeTis iubileebis aRniSvna
dagvCemda...
qveyana, romelic 100 wlis iubiles zeimobs
Jurnal `dilisas~, 80 wlis uxdeba Jurnali
`mnaTobi~, ufro metis kidev, 153 wlis Jurnali
`ciskari~, ar iviwyebs da aRniSnavs gazeT `mamulis~
sul patara, pawawkintela TariRs, ori wlis
iubiles...
or wels sityviT vambob, Torem `mamulis~
istoria eeee, saidan iwyeba...
gemaxsovrebaT, qarTuli Jurnalistikis gzis
pirvel-gamkvlevTa interesi samzareulos sibrZniT damTavrda - rusTvelidan da besikidan kneina
jorjaZesTan aRmovCndiT; `vefxistyaosnis~ unazesi
akvnesebidan saqarTvelo kereseliZis `ciskris~
redaqciamdis mivida, sadac gulmodgined swavlobdnen kombostos damJavebasa da bozbaSis keTebas.
Semdeg iyo revoluciis iluzia, TergdaleulTa
poezia, keTilSobili gaqaneba moqalaqeobriv motivebSi; poeziis kastracia bankobiiTa da apelaciebiT,
samagierod krilovis igav-arakebiT garToba da
`sulikos~ ideiT daZineba.
barabaniTa da muzikiT kvdeboda saqarTvelo,
`ra kargi gamogonebaa sasasflao~ - ambobda damtvreuli rusuliT baraTaSvili, orbeliani ki sadRegrZeloebSi da lopianas muxambazebSi iklavda patriotul Jins. samagierod, cecxli ekideboda `iverias~, ise gamoiara darCenili saukune da gadavida
momdevnoSi. daberda ilia mesaZirkvle da sulisdgma
`iveriisa~... propelerebma daafrTxo zecis idumaleba, sivrce acaxcaxda radios tokviT, cxenma saWiroeba dakarga da manqanebis qariSxalma gaaniava
warsuli. ai, movidnen `vaJkacebi~ sastiki qariSxliT da moerien keTilSobil moxucs, romelic
brundeboda saxlSi. ai, vaJkacoba! taSi amxanagebo!
ilias `iveriidan~ am gaqanebulma drom gazeT
`komunistis~ redaqciaSi migviyvana, Tavzars rom
scemda misi gesliani kalami yvelas da yvelafers.
`komunistis~ foladis kalami beladebis qeba-didebiTa da maTze SeTxzuli nekrologebis maRalfardovanebaSi gamoiwrTo, TiTqmis mTeli qveyana
rom awerda xels am teqstebs. TavisTavad, yvela
xelmomweri avtori iyo nekrologis da paradoqsmac ar daayovna: nekrologSi sityvebi rom dageTvala calke da avtorTa gvarebi calke, Tanafardoba
daaxloebiT aseTi iqneboda - erT sityvaze samioTxi avtori modioda...
Cven CamovediT aq, seqs-en-enebisa da Taimsebis
qveyanaSi, da CamovitaneT is pirvandeli Jurnalisturi gataceba, is paTosi, iliaseul `iverias~
rom hqonda, is simtkice, rac `komunists~ hqonda,
is mravalferovneba, rac Cven SevqmeniT... arsebobis
dRidan gazeTma `mamulma~ am ukidegano sivrceSi
dagvakavSira erTmaneTTan da rac mTavaria, uxilavi
ZafiT migvaba Cvens samSoblosTan...
piruTvnelad vaSuqebT saqarTvelodan Camosul
ambebs, mZimes, magram simarTles, sxva ganzomilebidan
vafasebT movlenebs, isaa, rom Rrma nostalgias
TeTr sastambo furclebSi vaqsovT...
minda xmamaRlad ganvacxado!... verc erTi gazeTis
redaqcia daikvexnis mkiTxvelTa siyvaruls ise,
rogorc `mamulis~ mkiTxvelebma ician...
- `mamulis~ mkiTxvelia, konvertSi Sekvra safosto marka rom Cagvido, wagexidebaTo...
- `mamulis~ mkiTxvelia, dRes ubileTobis gamo
rom ver movida, magram Tavisi mamuliSviluri wvlili mainc gaiRo...
- `mamulis~ mkiTxvelia WeSmaritad qarTuli
WaRara, 82 wlis bebia, romelmac gazeTis erTi nomris gamocema daafinansa inkognitod...
- albaT, marTla Zlier unda giyvardes Seni gazeTi, SeyvarebuliviT saiubileod yvavilebis lamazi
Taiguli rom gaugzavno...
- ar minda damaviwydes, rom `mamulis~ mkiTxvelia
qalbatoni naTela cxvedianic, leqsis es striqonebi
rom mogviZRvna:
`ori wlis aris Cveni `mamuli~,
samSoblo qveynis patara ylorti,
amerikaSi fexi aidga
da datantalebs StatebSi fostiT.
sad ara naxavT, sad ar SexvdebiT,
yvela qarTvelis megobaria,
frTxilad exeba Cvens sulis simebs,
xan mwared, xan tkbil-moubaria.
xan cremlebs gvadens, xan ki gvacinebs,
gviyveba ambebs - Zvelsa Tu axals,
gvaimedebs da Tan gvanugeSebs,
gviZRvnis sixaruls, siyvaruls mravals.~
sityva gamigrZelda, Torem uamravi ramis gaxseneba
SeiZleboda...
vecdebi dasasrulisken waviyvano es gamosvla...
Cemo Zvirfaso mkiTxvelo... uRrmes madlobas mogaxsenebT, pativi rom dagvdeT da mobrZandiT Cvens SemoTavazebul, saqvelmoqmedo saRamoze, mcire xniT gavixseneT
samSoblo, vusmendiT tkbil qarTuls da davtkbiT qarTuli cekva-simRerebiT... es piradad CemTvis aris mozRvavebuli nostalgiis gaqarveba, mcire xniT mainc...
imeds gamovTqvam, rom ar dagvWirdeba arc erTs sxvadasxva
qveynebSi saarsebo wyaros Zebna da erTad SevegebebiT
laR samSoblos...
5
gazeTis am sivrceSi reportaJi unda dagvebeWda... reportaJi imisa, Tu rogor aRniSna
amerikis qarTvelobam erTaderTi qarTuli gazeTis iubile!
mokled rom vTqvaT, am dRes
iyo qarTuli simReris, cekvisa
da sityvis zeimoba, siyvaruli,
sixaruli, Sexvedra monatrebul adamianebTan...
magram...
modiT viyoT marTalni sakuTar TavTan da isic vaRiaroT,
rom iyo xmauric... danebisa da
Canglebis xmaSewyobili urTierToba rom warmoSobda da
erTmaneTTan saubris xmasac
rom ar vaklebdiT...
scenaze filmebis kadrebi
gadioda, iq mamluqi kvdeboda,
aqeT dodo abaSiZis gmiri tiroda aeroportSi qarTuli
simReris gagonebaze, erosic saubrobda aRelvebuli im erTi
ramis siyvarulze, damalva rom
unda...
darbazi ki xmaurobda... danebisa da Canglebis cekvas cekvavda!
ar gveSinia, rom xmamaRlad
vTqvaT:
- berZeni biWisaviT, ianguliviT, CvenTvisac samSoblo ufro
Rrmadaa, mxolod im gansxvavebiT,
rom araTu gulSi... k u W S i !
es minaweri ar exeba damswre
sazogadoebis im 10%-s, Tvalcremlianebs, romlisTvisac
gazeTi `mamuli~ jerac agrZelebs arsebobas.
gTavazobT gazeTis iubilis
foto-kolaJs, mxolod istoriisaTvis... Tumca arc imas vmalavT, rom arsebobs sxva suraTebic, romelTa dabeWdvis ufleba redaqtorma sakuTar Tavs
ar misca.
6
xdtyb ufptsbc cgtwbfkehvf yjvthvf7 hjvtkbw ghtpbltyn pdbfl ufvcf[ehlbfc
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086.htm
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Òÿæåëî ïðîèçíîñèòü ñëîâà= ãîâîðÿ î ñìåðòè Çâèàäà
Ãàìñàõóðäèÿ\\\ È íåëüçÿ âûáðàòü= ê êîìó îáðàòèòüñÿ
íà Êàâêàçå - ýòî òðàãåäèÿ âñåãî êàâêàçñêîãî íàðîäà=
âñåãî ãóìàííîãî ÷åëîâå÷åñòâà\\\
Çâèàä Êîíñòàíòèíîâè÷ - îäèí èç òàëàíòëèâåéøèõ
ëþäåé íàøåãî âðåìåíè\ Âðåìÿ ïðîéäåò è íå äàëåêî
òî âðåìÿ= êîãäà è Ãðóçèÿ= è Êàâêàç= âåñü= è íåðàçäåëèìîå ãóìàíèòàðíîå ÷åëîâå÷åñòâî îñîçíàåò - êîãî ìû
ïîòåðÿëè\\\
ß ïîòåðÿë áîëüøå âñåõ| òàëàíòëèâîãî ó÷èòåëÿ= ñîðàòíèêà ïî áîðüáå çà ïðàâî íà ýòîé çåìëå è âåðíîãî
äðóãà! Íî= äîëæåí çàâåðèòü - äåëà Çâèàäà Ãàìñàõóðäèÿ ñòîëü âåëèêè= î÷åâèäíû è èìåþò æèçíü=
êîòîðóþ îí äàë= ÷òî îíè ÷åðåç òûñÿ÷ó ëåò ñ áëàãîäàðíîñòüþ áóäóò íåñòèñü íàðîäàìè!
Òàê óæ ñëó÷èëîñü - òðàãåäèÿ íàëîæèëàñü íà òðàãåäèþ - â êàêîì ñîñòîÿíèè ìîæåò îêàçàòüñÿ íàðîä
Ãðóçèè= åñëè ñåãîäíÿ íå ìîæåò ïðåäàòü òåëî
ãåíèàëüíîãî ÷åëîâåêà íà åãî èñêîííîé Ðîäèíå\\\ Ýòî
- äâîéíàÿ òðàãåäèÿ âðåìåíè\\\
Çâèàä Êîíñòàíòèíîâè÷ äîáðîâîëüíî óøåë èç ýòîé
æèçíè= ñäåëàâ âñå= ÷òî îí ìîæåò ñäåëàòü äëÿ Ãðóçèè
è Êàâêàçà\ Â ìîìåíò îñîçíàííîãî ñâîåãî øàãà â
ýòîé æèçíè îí îñòàëñÿ âåðåí çà ÷åñòü= ñîâåñòü=
äîñòîéíñòâî= íåçà-âèñèìîñòü è ïðàâî íà çåìëå
ãðóçèíñêîãî íàðîäà è íàðîäîâ Êàâêàçà! È ïîñëåäíèé
øàã îí ñäåëàë â Âå÷íîñòü= ÷òîáû ïðåäîòâðàòèòü åãî
èìåíåì è ïîä åãî çíàìåíåì äàëüíåéøåå êðîâîïðîëèòèå â Ãðóçèè\
ß õîðîøî çíàþ= ïî÷åìó îí óøåë èç Ãðóçèè - Çâèàä
Êîíñòàíòèíîâè÷ íå áûë èç ðîáêîãî äåñÿòêà è òðóñîâ! Ýòî áûë ìóæåñòâåííûé= ñèëüíûé= îäàðåííûé
ñàìèì Áîãîì è ïðèðîäîé ÷åëîâåê! Òàêîé ÷åëîâåê
íåîñîçíàííî íå ìîã ñäåëàòü íè îäèí øàã! È êîãäà
ÓØÅÑÒÂÈÅ - äëÿ òîãî= ÷òîáû ñâîèì øàãîì= åùå
ðàç= ïîä÷åðêíóòü ñâîþ ïðèâåðæåííîñòü è ëþáîâü
Ãðóçèè è âñåìó íàðîäó!
Ìû ïðèîáðåëè - òåëî âåëèêîãî ÷åëîâåêà è Ñûíà
Êàâêàçà ïðåäàåòñÿ ýòîé çåìëå! Ìû ñ÷àñòëèâû ïðèíÿòü ýòî òåëî íà ýòó çåìëþ\ Ãäå-íèáóäü= Âñåâûøíèé
áëàãîñëîâèë è â ýòîò ðàç ýòó çåìëþ! Òàê óæ ïîëó÷èëîñü\\\ Íî ìû íå îòðûâàåì åãî îò Ãðóçèè= íå îòðûâàåì îò Êàâêàçà - ýòî Ñûí Êàâêàçà! È õîòÿò ïðîòèâíèêè òîãî= èëè íåò - ýòî òàëàíòëèâåéøèé è ãåíèàëüíåéøèé ÷åëîâåê Íàøåãî Âðåìåíè!
ÌÈÐ ÅÃÎ ÏÐÀÕÓ È ÆÈÇÍÜ ÅÃÎ ÄÅËÀÌ!
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13
- gorelaSvili (ase iwyeben saubars telefoniT, germaniaSi red)...
- gamarjobaT. me Tiniko var, CiTinaSvili. Cven yvelas
Zalian gvixaria, rodesac Seni warmatebebis Sesaxeb gvesmis
da gvsurda Sens Sesaxeb Cvens JurnalSi dagvewera.
satelefono saubari ase daiwyo, Sexvedra ki saRamos
8 saaTze, ubralod da gulTbilad, „rathausTan“ Sedga.
ise, rogorc miunxeneli qarTvelebi erTmaneTs xSirad
xvdebian. miunxenis seqtembris bolosTvis aradamaxasiaTebel Tbils saRamos, Ria cis qveS, finjan yavaze didxans
visaubreT. gavige, rom marika 18 wlisaa. ukve 3 welia
mSoblebTan, qalbaton lalisTan da baton iliasTan erTad
miunxenSi cxovrobs. aris gimnaziis 13-e niWierTa klasis
moswavle, uyvars dostoevski, flobs 30-mde di ploms
fizikis da maTematikis olimpiadebidan da Tavisufal
dros taekvandos misdevs. Tumca, amaze TanmimdevrobiT
misive sityvebiT:
es interviu germaniaSi gamomaval Jurnal `qarTulis~ pirvel nomerSi,
me-16-17 gverdebze daibeWda.
didi survili gvqonda mivsalmebodiT axali qarTuli Jurnalis daarse
daarse-bis faqts Cveni qveynis gareT, Tumca survili am etapze survilad rCeba.
gazeT `mamulis~ redaqtors ergo `bedniereba~, rom sakuTari TvaliT,
`originalSi~ waekiTxa es interviu da Jurnalis kabadonis Sreebze sa
sa-kuTari SeniSvnebic CaeniSna.
am SeniSvnebis wakiTxvas redaqtoris, anu gazeTis meore gverdze gTavazobT,
manamde ki gTxovT, waikiTxoT Tavad `avadsaxsenebeli~ interviu.
saqarTvelov, Sen vin mogca Svili dasakargavi!
_ germaniaSi jer bevri araferi gamikeTebia. erT olimpidaSi
gavimarjve da maTematikis di plomi aviRe da meore – axlandeli sti pendia.
- Tu imiT daviwyebT, rom
or TveSi germanul enas ise
daeufle, rom gimnaziaSi geswavla... mainc ra meTodiT
Tu reJimiT moaxerxe amis
gakeTeba?
_ rom giTxra, vijeqi da ori
Tvis ganmavlobaSi dRe da Rame
vswavlobdi-meTqi, ase ar yofila. ubralod, sanam gimnaziaSi
wavidodi, dro mqonda da yoveldRe 200 sityvas vswavlobdi.
movaswari, Torem mere amis dro
aRar mqonia.
- me ramdenadac vici, bavariis ganaTlebis saministro
ar scnobs araTu sazRvargareT, aramed TviTon germaniis sxva bundeslandebis ganaTlebis klasobriv sistemas da xSir, TiTqmis umravles SemTxvevaSi moswavleebi wels kargaven.
_ me movige. me-10 klasSi viyavi saqarTvelodan rom wamovediT. erTi semestri skolaSi saerTod ar mivlia. TebervalSi
meaTe klasidan gavagrZele da
niWier bavSvTa klasSic movxvdi.
- es rogor?
_ ubralod. mivedi direqtorTan da ganvucxade, rom mis skolaSi mindoda swavla da amis
mizezad skolaSi niWier bavSvTa
klasis arseboba davusaxele. imanac, Sesabamisad, momTxova, jer misTvis damesabuTebina, rom amis moTxovnis safuZveli mqonda (raSic Cemi di plomebi damexmara)
da Semdeg maTematikis maswavleblisTvis, rom niWieri bavSvi viyavi. es Semowmebac gaviare da
swavla daviwye.
- Tavis garTmeva, rogorc
Cans ar gagiWirda. rogorc
vici, cota xanSi moswavleebic mogiCines.
_ es Cveulebrivi daxmarebis
gawevaa moswavleebisTvis, rasac
„naxhilfes“ eZaxian. ubralod,
saWiroa maRali niSnebi da maswavleblis nebarTva, Caataro gakveTilebi.
- rogor da sad aRmogaCines?
_ vswavlobdi quTaisis klasikur gimnaziaSi. Cemi axlandeli naTlia eZebda me-6 klasel
niWier bavSvebs. me me-5 klaSi
viyavi, magram Cemi maswavleblis
rekomendaciiT amiyvana da pirvelad maSin aviRe pirveli adgili me-6 klasel bavSvebTan. daviwye mecadineoba da maTematikis me-6 klasis programa mexuTeSi gaviare. amis Semdeg, TiTqmis yvela fizikis da maTematikis olimpiadaze pirvel adgil-
ze viyavi. Cemi asakis bavSvebSi
nomer pirveli fizikosi viyavi
da maTematikis pirvel xuTeulSi.
- albaT, kiTxvac ar unda,
rom Seni momavali profesiac am or sagans ukavSirdeba.
_ ara. samedicinoze Cabareba
maqvs gadawyvetili.
- fizika da maTematika?!
_ me biologiac kargad vici
da qimiac. sxva profesiaze arc
mifiqria. jer erTi, albaT imis
gamo, rom deda eqimi myavs da
meorec, minda Cemi codna da
energia adamianebis janmrTelobas da sicocxles movaxmaro.
- Seni gadawyvetileba Tu
ukavSirdeba ramenairad saqarTvelos. Cvens saubarSi
axsene, rom aqauri situaciis da megobrebis daTmobas
ar apireb.
_ Cemi saqarTveloSi sacxovreblad dabruneba gamoricxulia.
iq Cemi codna da Sroma arasdros ar dafasdeba. me aq 10
weli universitetSi imisTvis
ver viswavli, rom saqarTveloSi
Cavide da 100 larze vimuSavo.
- Tu SenTvis prioriteti
adamianis janmrTelobasa da
sicocxleze zrunvaa, saqarTveloSi ufro farTo asparezi geqneboda, vidre aq. amaSi xels maRalkvalificirebuli specialistebis naklebobac da saSvel adamianTa siWarbec Segiwyobda.
_ im sferoSi, sadac me muSaobas vapireb, aqac bevrs sWirdeba
daxmareba.
- ra sferoSi apireb muSaobas?
_ fsiqoTerapiaSi. me rom saqarTveloSi Cavide da gamovacxado, fsiqoTerapevti var da
problemebis SemTxvevaSi CemTan
mobrZandiT-meTqi, axlos aravin
gamekareba. erT-erTi gegma saqarTvelosTan dakavSirebiT is maqvs,
rom wiTel jvarTan TanamSromlobiT, 2-3 kviriani vizitebiT
Cavide da ufasod movemsaxuro
avadmyofebs.
- gaqvs uSualo kavSiri
wiTel jvarTan?
_ ki, skolaSi pirveli daxmarebis gundSi var. ra Tqma unda,
gaviare specialuri momzadeba da
yovelTvis didi siamovnebiT var
mzad daxmarebis gasawevad.
- mainc ra fenomenia saqarTvelo SenTvis. ra datvirTva aqvs mas?
_ princi pSi, didi araferi.
ubralod, iq myavs ramdenime araCveulebrivi megobari, romlebic
Zalian menatrebian da Cemi ojaxis erTi nawili, biZa da bebia.
maT sanaxavad drodadro, ra Tqma
unda, Caval. ase SarSanac viyavi
Casuli. Zalian kargi iyo, magram
isic unda aRvniSno, rom stumrad vgrZnobdi sakuTar saxlSi
Tavs.
- Sens am gadwyvetilebas,
albaT, is gamarTleba aqvs,
rom saqarTveloSi Seni ganviTarebis da SesaZleblobebis gamoyenebis pirobebs ver
xedav. Teoriulad rom davuSvaT aseTis arseboba, maSinac uars ityodi saqarTveloSi cxovrebaze?
_ im qveyanaSi ubralod ver
vicxovreb. CemTvis germaniac iseTive samSobloa, rogorc saqarTvelo da amas ufro ver Sevelevi.
- yvelaze metad ras ver
Seelevi?
_ Cems aqaur megobrebs.
- Sen saqarTveloSic gyavs
megobrebi, romlebic ramdenime wlis win datove da
albaT axlac gelodebian.
_ im megobrebTan kontaqtis
gawyvetas ar vapireb, magram vTvli,
rom aq SeZenil megobrebTan meti
maqvs saerTo da Cveni urTierToba ufro myar safuZvelzea damyarebuli.
- anu, sadac yvelaze didi
siamovnebiT icxovrebdi, mainc germania da miunxenia?
_ miunxeni Zalian miyvars, magram didi siamovnebiT vicxovrebdi amerikaSic, mxolod im pirobiT, rom romelime universitetSi profesorad damniSnaven.
- anu Sen ufro da ufro
Sors midixar Cvengan. rac
Seexeba aqaur megobrebTan
urTierTobas. Seni mentalitetiT, azrovnebiT, Sexedu-
lebebiT winaaRmdegobaSi ar
modixar maTTan?
_ aseTi momentebi xSirad aris,
magram es Cvens megobrobas xels
ar uSlis. isini Cems mentalitets da warmodgenebs scemen pativs, me _ maTsas.
- igive Tavisufali drois gatarebas maTTan erTad,
garTobas, Tvli, rom araferi
ar aklia, an ar fiqrob, rom
es qarTvel megobrebTan ukeTesad gamovidoda?
_ ara. SemiZlia vTqva, rom germanelebmac iseTive kargi, SeiZleba ukeTesi megobrobac ki ician
qarTvelebze.
- rogoria Seni mSoblebis damokidebuleba Sens samomavlo gegmebTan dakavSirebiT?
_ Cems mSoblebs undodaT, rom
me evropaSi mimeRo ganaTleba. me
aq SemiZlia maqsimumis gakeTeba
da amdenad, isini winaaRmdegni
ar arian. amerikaSi wasvlac imitom maqvs Cafiqrebuli, rom is
sfero, sadac me minda vimuSavo,
iq yvelaze kargadaa ganviTarebuli. aq mTavari Cemi karieraa
da is, Tu sad SemiZlia meti
gavakeTo.
- davubrundeT Cvens ZiriTad sasaubro Temas da
axladdaniSnul sti pendiasa da 20 oqtombers bavariis ganaTlebis ministrTan dagegmil Sexvedraze gadavideT.
_ am sti pendiis gacema 2005
wlis seqtembridan daiwyo. SeirCa bavariidan 50 saukeTeso ucxouri warmoSobis, anu aragermaneli bavSvi 8-dan me-13 klasis
CaTvliT. ucxouri niSnavs warmoSobiT, Tumca umetesoba aq dabadebulia. dagegmilia sxvadasxva saxis RonisZiebebi, romelTagan pirveli – 20 oqtombers
ministrTan Sexvedra da mis mier CvenTvis di plomebis gadmocemaa. amis Semdeg, yovel or TveSi 50-ve SevxvdebiT, gakeTdeba
saswavlo programebi, gveqneba urTierToba profesorebTan. aseve
gvexmarebian finansuradac. mag.:
axla SemomTavazes 1000 evros
gamoyofa axali komiuteris sayidlad. anu, yvelanairi pirobaa
Seqmnili, rom Cveni SesaZleblobebi gamovavlinoT da ganvaviTaroT. rom meubnebi, saqarTveloSi wadio, iqac imaves vakeTebdi,
rasac aq vakeTeb, magram vinme micnobda fizikis da maTematikis
profesorebis garda?! erTaderTi mTeli Cemi olimpiadebis dros
rac saqarTveloSi jildod miviRe, iyo „kalkulatori“ da isic
iseTi iaffasiani, rom erT TveSi
gafuWda.
- Tavisufal dros, Tu
gaqvs aseTi, ras akeTeb xolme?
_ aseTi iSviaTad maqvs da vkiTxuleb, velosi pediT davdivar, magram ZiriTad dros mainc taekvandos vaxmar.
- me mainc ase davasrulebdi Cvens saubars: iqneb
mainc gefiqra imaze, rom saqarTvelos ara hyavs dasakargi Svilebi da yvela warmatebasTan erTad mainc saqarTveloSi gisurvebdi gqonodes is pirobebi, ramac aq
cxovreba gvaiZula.
Tiniko CiTinaSvili
14
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ñåñòåð\ Èõ ïîòîì íèêòî íå òðîíóë\
À êî ìíå ñòàëè ïðèåçæàòü èç Ãðóçèè ðàçíûå ÷èíîâíèêè= êîòîðûå
ïûòàëèñü ïîìî÷ü ìíå â íàõîæäåíèè áðàòà= ïðåäëàãàòü ñîòðóäíè÷åñòâî\ Ïóñêàòü èõ â ñâîé áèçíåñ ÿ
íå õîòåë= ÷òîáû èçáåæàòü êîíòàêòîâ
ñ íèìè= ÿ ðåøèë ôîðìàëüíî îòäàëèòüñÿ îò áàíêà| çàÿâèë= ÷òî óõîæó
ñ ïîñòà ïðåçèäåíòà= à â 1994 ã\ íà
ïîëãîäà óåõàë ñ ñåìüåé ê çíàêîìûì
â ÑØÀ\ Ñèòóàöèÿ â Ãðóçèè áûëà
íåñïîêîéíàÿ= êàçàëîñü= ÷òî æèòü çà
ãðàíèöåé ñïîêîéíåå= äóìàëè= ìîæåò= ñòîèò óåõàòü ðàäè äåòåé= èõ
áóäóùåãî\ Âûáèðàëè ñòðàíó= êîòîðàÿ áîëüøå âñåãî ïîíðàâèòñÿ= îñòàíîâèëèñü íà Ôðàíöèè= êóïèëè äîì
ïîä Ïàðèæåì\ Íî ìû ïîñòîÿííî
òàì íå æèëè= ïî áèçíåñó= îñîáåííî ïîñëå äåôîëòà= â îñíîâíîì ïðèõîäèëîñü áûòü â Ìîñêâå\
- Íî òåì íå ìåíåå ôðàíöóçñêîå
ãðàæäàíñòâî âû ïîëó÷èëè~
- Æåíà è äåòè - äà= ÿ íå ñòàë ïîëó÷àòü= ýòî îòíÿëî áû ìíîãî âðåìåíè| íàäî áûëî ïðîõîäèòü ñîáåñåäîâàíèÿ è ïðî÷\
- Íå æàëååòå= ÷òî ïðåæäå íå äàâàëè èíòåðâüþ~ Íåóæåëè âàñ
îñòàâëÿëî ðàâíîäóøíûì òî= ÷òî î
âàñ ïèøóò~
- Êîíå÷íî= íåò\  îòëè÷èå îò ðîññèéñêèõ ÑÌÈ ÿ ïîñòîÿííî áûë â
ïîëå âíèìàíèÿ ãðóçèíñêèõ æóðíàëèñòîâ\ Íåêîòîðûå èç íèõ çàíèìàëèñü ïåðåïå÷àòêàìè èç Èíòåðíåòà=
ãäå äîëãîå âðåìÿ áûëî ïîìåùåíî
äîñüå= ñôîðìèðîâàííîå ÿêîáû èç
äàííûõ ñëóæáû áåçîïàñíîñòè ãðóïïû “Ìîñò”\ Ïîñêîëüêó ìû ñåðüåçíî êîíêóðèðîâàëè êîãäà-òî ñ Ìîñòáàíêîì= íåóäèâèòåëüíî= ÷òî ýòî äîñüå ñîäåðæàëî ïîëíûé íàáîð
èçâðàùåííîé ÷óøè ïðî ÐÊ è ìåíÿ
ëè÷íî= äà åùå íàïèñàííîé ñ èñïîëüçîâàíèåì êðèìèíàëüíîãî æàðãîíà\ Îíî áûëî íàñòîëüêî íåñåðüåçíî= ÷òî íè îäíà ðîññèéñêàÿ ãàçåòà åãî íå èñïîëüçîâàëà\ Âî âðåìåíà Øåâàðäíàäçå ãðóçèíñêèå æóðíàëèñòû îãóëüíî ðóãàëè âñåõ= â
òîì ÷èñëå è ìåíÿ= ïîýòîìó ÿ íå
îáðàùàë âíèìàíèÿ íà èõ ñòàòüè\
Íî êîãäà ÷åðåç ãîä ïîñëå ïðèõîäà
íîâîé âëàñòè ñòàòüè â ìîé àäðåñ
âîçîáíîâèëèñü= ÿ âïåðâûå îòðåàãèðîâàë íà íèõ| â íîÿáðå ïðîøëîãî
ãîäà ïîðó÷èë ñâîèì ñëóæáàì ðàçîáðàòüñÿ ñ õîçÿåâàìè èíòåðíåòñàéòà= íà êîòîðîì áûëî ðàçìåùåíî
ýòî äîñüå\ È âëàäåëüöû ïåðâîèñòî÷íèêà - Ôåäåðàëüíîãî àãåíòñòâà ðàññëåäîâàíèé - èçúÿëè äîñüå è ïðèíåñëè ñâîè èçâèíåíèÿ\
- Òî åñòü âñå= ÷òî òàì íàïèñàíî=
íåïðàâäà~
- Ãëàâíàÿ “ñåíñàöèÿ” òîãî äîñüå ýòî òî= ÷òî ÿ ÿêîáû áûë ñâÿçàí ñ
Îòàðè Êâàíòðèøâèëè= ìû âìåñòå
çàíèìàëèñü ôàëüøèâûìè àâèçî è
ïðî÷\ Ýòî ïîëíûé áðåä\ Êîãäà â íà÷àëå 90-õ áîëüøèíñòâî áàíêîâ=
âêëþ÷àÿ ãîñóäàðñòâåííûå= áûëè
ïîðàæåíû ôàëüøèâûìè àâèçî= ñ
ïîìîùüþ êîòîðûõ èç áþäæåòà
áûëè óêðàäåíû äåñÿòêè ìèëëèàðäîâ äîëëàðîâ= ÿ ïðèëîæèë ãèãàíòñêèå óñèëèÿ= ÷òîáû ÐÊ ïðîòèâîñòîÿë çàêàç÷èêàì àôåð= è îí îêàçàëñÿ åäèíñòâåííûì áàíêîì= êîòîðûé íå ïðîïóñòèë ó ñåáÿ íè îäíîãî
àâèçî\
Òàêîé æå áðåä è îáúåäèíåíèå â
åäèíîå ñîîáùåñòâî ìåíÿ= Êâàíòðèøâèëè= Áåíäóêèäçå= Ìàãàðàäçå=
Ñåëèàøâèëè\ ß íå áûë çíàêîì íè
ñ êåì èç íèõ\ Ãðóçèíñêèå æóðíàëèñòû= êîòîðûì äî ñèõ ïîð íå äàåò
ïîêîÿ ìîÿ ìíèìàÿ ñâÿçü ñ Êâàíòðèøâèëè= ìîãëè áû ïðîâåñòè íåñëîæíîå æóðíàëèñòñêîå ðàññëåäîâàíèå= íà÷àòü ñ î÷åíü èçâåñòíûõ
çíàêîìûõ òîãî æå Êâàíòðèøâèëè\
Íå ïðîáëåìà íàéòè è â Ãðóçèè= è
â Ðîññèè ðîäñòâåííèêîâ= äðóçåé
Êâàíòðèøâèëè= ñîòðóäíèêîâ ÐÊ\ È
ïóñêàé íàéäóò õîòÿ áû îäíîãî ñâèäåòåëÿ èëè äîêàçàòåëüñòâî= ÷òî ó
ìåíÿ èëè ìîèõ ñòðóêòóð ñ Êâàíòðèøâèëè áûëî õîòü ìàëåéøåå ñîïðèêîñíîâåíèå! Åñòü è òàêèå ãðóçèíñêèå æóðíàëèñòû= êîòîðûå= ðàññêàçûâàÿ ïðî ìåíÿ= óïîòðåáëÿþò
âûðàæåíèå “íåêòî Èâàíèøâèëè”=
äðóãèå ïèøóò= ÷òî “îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî” ÿ îêîí÷èë ÒÃÓ= òðåòüè ïîä
ìîåé ôàìèëèåé ïå÷àòàþò ÷óæèå
ôîòîãðàôèè\ Èíûå íàçûâàþò “ïóáëè÷íûì äîìîì” íîâûé áèçíåñ-öåíòð= êîòîðûé ÿ ñòðîþ â Òáèëèñè\
×òî èõ âñåõ îáúåäèíÿåò~ ßêîáû
ñòðàøíîå âîçìóùåíèå= ÷òî îíè íå
ìîãóò äîáûòü èíôîðìàöèþ\ Íî ýòî
æå ëóêàâñòâî\ Ïðî ãðóçèíà= ðîäèâøåãîñÿ â Ãðóçèè= èìåþùåãî ðîäèòåëåé= êó÷ó ðîäñòâåííèêîâ è äðóçåé= â Ãðóçèè î÷åíü áûñòðî ìîæíî
óçíàòü àáñîëþòíî âñþ èíôîðìàöèþ\ ß íå îáðàùàëñÿ â ñóä ñ
èñêàìè î çàùèòå ÷åñòè è äîñòîèíñòâà= ïîòîìó ÷òî íèêîãäà èõ íå
òåðÿë= æèë ïî ñîâåñòè\
“ß ÕÎÒÅË ÂÛÏÓÑÊÀÒÜ
ÀÐÌÈÐÎÂÀÍÍÛÅ
ØËÀÍÃÈ”
- Êàêîå ó âàñ ãðàæäàíñòâî~
- Ðîññèéñêîå è ãðóçèíñêîå\
- Ãäå âû æèâåòå ñåé÷àñ~
- ß ñîñêó÷èëñÿ ïî Ãðóçèè è ãîä
íàçàä ñ ñåìüåé ïåðååõàë æèòü â
ñåëî= â êîòîðîì ïðîøëî ìîå äåòñòâî\ Ñåìüÿ äëÿ ìåíÿ âñåãäà íà
ïåðâîì ìåñòå= ìîé ïàïà íåäàâíî
óìåð= ìàìà â âîçðàñòå= çàõîòåëîñü
ïîæèòü ðÿäîì ñ íåé\ Ïîñòðîèë íîâûé äîì ðÿäîì ñ òåì= â êîòîðîì
æèë ñ ðîäèòåëÿìè= äóìàþ= ÷òî ïîñåëèëèñü òóò íàäîëãî\
- Ðàññêàæèòå= ÷åì âû çàíèìàëèñü äî òîãî= êàê îðãàíèçîâàëè
“Ðîñêðåä”\
- ß ðîäèëñÿ â ñåëå ×îðâèëà= íå-
äàëåêî îò ã\ ×èàòóðà\ Îòåö ðàáîòàë
øàõòåðîì íà êîìáèíàòå “×èàòóðìàðãàíåö”= êîòîðûé= êñòàòè= íåäàâíî êóïèë ðîññèéñêèé “Åâðàçõîëäèíã”\ Ïîñëå øêîëû ÿ óåõàë â Òáèëèñè - ó÷èëñÿ íà èíæåíåðíî-ýêîíîìè÷åñêîì ôàêóëüòåòå Òáèëèññêîãî ãîñóíèâåðñèòåòà= îäíîâðåìåííî ðàáîòàë íà Ëèòåéíî-ìåõàíè÷åñêîì çàâîäå èì\ Êàìî - óáîðùèêîì= ïîäñîáíûì ðàáî÷èì= à ïîòîì øëèôîâàëüùèêîì\ Óíèâåðñèòåò îêîí÷èë ñ îòëè÷èåì è îñòàëñÿ
ðàáîòàòü íà òîì æå çàâîäå - óæå
ñòàðøèì èíæåíåðîì= à çàòåì - íà÷àëüíèêîì ëàáîðàòîðèè ïî íàó÷íîé îðãàíèçàöèè òðóäà\  1982 ã\
óåõàë â Ìîñêâó â àñïèðàíòóðó
ÍÈÈ òðóäà= à ÷åðåç íåñêîëüêî ëåò=
çàùèòèâøèñü ïî ñïåöèàëüíîñòè
“íàó÷íàÿ îðãàíèçàöèÿ è ýêîíîìèêà
òðóäà”= âåðíóëñÿ â Òáèëèñè â ìåñòíîå îòäåëåíèå ÍÈÈ\ À âñêîðå
îðãàíèçîâàë ñâîé ïåðâûé áèçíåñ\
- Êàê ïðèøëà èäåÿ çàíÿòüñÿ áèçíåñîì~
- ×òî òàêîå ñòàðøèé íàó÷íûé ñîòðóäíèê â êîíöå 80-õ~ Íè èíòåðåñíîé ðàáîòû= íè ïåðñïåêòèâ\ Ó
ìåíÿ íå áûëî íè êâàðòèðû= íè ñåìüè= æèë â îáùåæèòèè Ëèòåéíîìåõàíè÷åñêîãî çàâîäà\ Êîíå÷íî= òîãäà è â ìûñëÿõ íå áûëî= ÷òî ñîçäàì
áàíê= ñòàíó ìèëëèàðäåðîì= ïðîñòî
áûëî æåëàíèå íà÷àòü çàðàáàòûâàòü
äåíüãè\ Ðåøèë âûïóñêàòü àðìèðîâàííûå øëàíãè= â òå âðåìåíà îíè
áûëè â äåôèöèòå\ Çàðåãèñòðèðîâàë
êîîïåðàòèâ= ó çàâîäà èì\ Êàìî àðåíäîâàë ïîìåùåíèå è íà÷àë ïîäãîòîâêó ê ïðîèçâîäñòâó\ Ïî âå÷åðàì
ëè÷íî âûòà÷èâàë îáîðóäîâàíèå= íî
äî âûïóñêà øëàíãîâ äåëî íå äîøëî íà÷àë òîðãîâàòü êîìïüþòåðàìè\
- Ïî÷åìó èìåííî êîìïüþòåðàìè~
- ß àíàëèçèðîâàë= íà òîðãîâëå
÷åì ìîæíî ïðîäâèíóòüñÿ= è ïðèøåë ê âûâîäó= ÷òî çà êîìïüþòåðàìè
áóäóùåå\ Ñïðîñ íà íèõ áûë= à âîò
íàéòè èõ áûëî ïðîáëåìîé\
ß áûë çíàêîì ñ òáèëèññêèìè
åâðåÿìè= óåõàâøèìè çà ãðàíèöó= ñîçâîíèëñÿ ñ íèìè= îíè áûëè ðàäû
íà÷àòü áèçíåñ\ Íà÷àëè îòïðàâëÿòü
êîìïüþòåðû ìíå= à ïåðâûì ïîêóïàòåëåì ñòàëà Àêàäåìèÿ íàóê Ãðóçèè\ Íî ãðóçèíñêîé ïðîêóðàòóðå íå
ïîíðàâèëàñü ìîÿ àêòèâíîñòü= òî=
÷òî òîëüêî çà ïåðâóþ ñäåëêó íà
ñ÷åòà ìîåãî êîîïåðàòèâà ïðèøëî
áîëüøå 1 ìëí ðóá\= îíè àðåñòîâàëè
ñ÷åòà\ ß ïîíÿë= ÷òî è äàëüøå ìíå
áóäóò ñòàâèòü ïàëêè â êîëåñà= è ðåøèë ïåðåáðàòüñÿ â Ìîñêâó\ Åùå â
àñïèðàíòóðå ïîçíàêîìèëñÿ ñ Âèòàëèåì Ìàëêèíûì= îí òîãäà áûë
àñïèðàíòîì Ìîñêîâñêîãî æåëåçíîäîðîæíîãî èíñòèòóòà\ ß áûë ðåïåòèòîðîì îäíîãî ñòóäåíòà ïî ìàòåìàòèêå= à Âèòàëèé - ïî ôèçèêå\
Êîãäà ÿ âåðíóëñÿ â Ìîñêâó=
Ìàëêèí óæå çàíèìàëñÿ áèçíåñîì ïåðåïðîäàâàë ÷òî-òî= ïûòàëñÿ êàôå
îòêðûâàòü= íî ÿ åìó ïðåäëîæèë áîëåå îðãàíèçîâàííûé áèçíåñ - òîðãîâëþ êîìïüþòåðàìè\
Ó Ìàëêèíà áûëè òîâàðèùè èç
æåëåçíîäîðîæíîãî èíñòèòóòà - äîöåíòû Ñåðãåé Ìîñèí è Àëåêñàíäð
Áðÿíöåâ\ Îíè ñòðîèëè òåïëèöû â
Íàðî-Ôîìèíñêå= ó íèõ áûë êîîïåðàòèâ “Àãðîïðîãðåññ”\ ×òîáû íå òå-
ðÿòü âðåìåíè íà ðåãèñòðàöèþ íîâîãî êîîïåðàòèâà= ñòàëè òîðãîâàòü
÷åðåç “Àãðîïðîãðåññ”= äîëè ó âñåõ
áûëè ðàâíûå\ Ýòî áûë 1988 ã\ Ìû
ñíèìàëè êîìíàòó â òðåõêîìíàòíîé
êâàðòèðå íà 5-ì ýòàæå áåç ëèôòà —
òàì è îôèñ= è ñêëàä áûëè= áèçíåñ
øåë ïîëíûì õîäîì\ Òîãäà áèçíåñ
ðàáîòàë ïî-äðóãîìó| ìíîãîå äåëàëîñü íà äîâåðèè= áîëüøèå ñóììû
ïåðå÷èñëÿëè â êà÷åñòâå ïðåäîïëàòû\ Ïîòîì ñòàëè è êñåðîêñàìè=
ìàãíèòîôîíàìè= òåëåôîíàìè òîðãîâàòü\
Ìîñêâà â òå âðåìåíà êèøåëà
èíîñòðàíöàìè= êîòîðûå ïðåäëàãàëè
ðàçíûé òîâàð= êî ìíå îíè ïðèõîäèëè òîëïàìè= íî ÿ âèäåë= ÷òî ïî÷òè âñå îíè ìîøåííèêè\ È ìû
ñàìè ïîåõàëè çà ãðàíèöó èñêàòü ïàðòíåðîâ\ Óçíàëè= ÷òî â Ïàðèæå ïðîõîäèò âûñòàâêà âûñîêîòåõíîëîãè÷íîé ïðîäóêöèè\ Òàì ïîçíàêîìèëèñü ñ îäíîé ãîíêîíãñêîé ôèðìîé=
ïîåõàëè ê íèì - óâåðÿþ= ìû áûëè
ïåðâûìè ðóññêèìè áèçíåñìåíàìè=
êîòîðûå ïðèåõàëè â Ãîíêîíã\
Çàêëþ÷èëè ñ íèìè íàø ïåðâûé
êðóïíûé êîíòðàêò\ Âñþ ýòó òåõíèêó äåëàëè â Êèòàå= è ìû ðèñêíóëè ïîéòè åùå äàëüøå| êóïèëè
â Êèòàå ôàáðèêó ïî ïðîèçâîäñòâó
êíîïî÷íûõ òåëåôîíîâ è êàññåòíûõ
ìàãíèòîôîíîâ\ Â 1990 ã\ íàøà êîìïàíèÿ áûëà îäíîé èç êðóïíåéøèõ
â ñòðàíå ïî ïðîäàæå ýëåêòðîííîé
òåõíèêè= íî ìíîãèå óæå ïîíÿëè= ÷òî
ýòî ïðèáûëüíûé áèçíåñ= è ìû ðåøèëè çàíÿòüñÿ ÷åì-òî äðóãèì\ Òîãäà
êàê ðàç ñòàëè ïîÿâëÿòüñÿ ïåðâûå
÷àñòíûå áàíêè= â 1990 ã\ ìû çàðåãèñòðèðîâàëè “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò”\
- À áûë ó âàñ äðóãîé áèçíåñ=
êðîìå òîðãîâëè ýëåêòðîíèêîé~
Êàêîé êàïèòàë âû íàêîïèëè ê ìîìåíòó ñîçäàíèÿ áàíêà~
- Äðóãîãî áèçíåñà íå áûëî\ À ê
ìîìåíòó îòêðûòèÿ “Ðîññèéñêîãî
êðåäèòà” ìû íàêîïèëè $100 000120 000= ýòî áûëè áîëüøèå äåíüãè=
íà íèõ ìîæíî áûëî îòêðûòü íåñêîëüêî áàíêîâ\ Áðÿíöåâ ñ íàìè íå
ïîøåë= ñêàçàë= ÷òî óæå è áåç òîãî
áîãàòûé ÷åëîâåê= ïðîäîëæèë ñòðîèòü òåïëèöû\ ß= Ìàëêèí è Ìîñèí
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ðåøàòü= êîìó äàâàòü êðåäèò= à êîìó
íåò\ Ïðîñòî ìû äåëàëè òî= ÷åãî íå
äåëàëè äðóãèå\ Áûëè ïåðâûìè ïî
îáúåìàì ïðîäàæ íàëè÷íîé âàëþòû|
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ñîçäàâàëè îïòîâûå öåíòðû ðîçíè÷íîé ïðîäàæè âàëþòû\
À âîîáùå ìíîãîå òîãäà ðåøèëà
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óòðîì áûëî ãîòîâîå ðåøåíèå\ Ìû
ïðèõîäèëè ê äèðåêòîðàì ïðåäïðèÿòèé= èíñòèòóòîâ è äîãîâàðèâàëèñü - îíè íàì âûäåëÿëè ïîìåùåíèÿ= à ìû äåëàëè ýòè îðãàíèçàöèè
ïàéùèêàìè áàíêà= äàâàëè ïðîöåíòà ïî äâà= îíè ïîòîì ñòàíîâèëèñü
íàøèìè êëèåíòàìè\ ß ñîçäàë ïåðâûé â Ðîññèè áàíêîâñêèé êîëëåäæ= êîòîðûé ãîòîâèë íàì ñîòðóäíèêîâ= ïåðâûå ëåêöèè ÷èòàë òàì
ëè÷íî\ Íî ãëàâíîå= ÷åì ÿ ãîðæóñü= â áàíêå áûë ñîçäàí óíèêàëüíûé êîðïîðàòèâíûé äóõ= áîëüøèíñòâî ñîòðóäíèêîâ ðàáîòàþò äî ñèõ ïîð\
- Âû ïåðèîäè÷åñêè óåçæàëè èç
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ïîñòîÿííî æèâåòå â Ãðóçèè\ Êàê
âû óïðàâëÿåòå áèçíåñîì= êàêèå âîïðîñû ðåøàåòå ëè÷íî~
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àêöèîíåð= è òîï-ìåíåäæåð â îäíîì
ëèöå= â Ðîññèè ïî-äðóãîìó íåëüçÿ\
Ó÷ðåäèâ áàíê= ïåðâûå ãîäà ÷åòûðå
ÿ ëè÷íî êîíòðîëèðîâàë âñå= ÷òî â
íåì ïðîèñõîäèëî\ Êîãäà áèçíåñ ðàçðîññÿ= ÿ ñòàë âíåäðÿòü êîëëåãèàëüíîå óïðàâëåíèå\ Ñåé÷àñ ÿ áîëüøå êîíöåíòðèðóþñü íà ðåøåíèè
ñòðàòåãè÷åñêèõ âîïðîñîâ= íî çíàþ
âñå= ÷òî äåëàåòñÿ ïî âñåì íàïðàâëåíèÿì áèçíåñà\ Äàæå ñåé÷àñ= ãäå
áû ÿ íè íàõîäèëñÿ= ÿ êàæäûé äåíü
ìèíèìóì ÷åòûðå ÷àñà ïîñâÿùàþ
ðåøåíèþ ðàáî÷èõ âîïðîñîâ\
- À êàêèå æå ôóíêöèè áûëè ó
Ìàëêèíà~
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â ãîññòðóêòóðàõ= çàìåùàë ìåíÿ íà
ðàçíûõ ôîðìàëüíûõ âñòðå÷àõ= íåôîðìàëüíûõ òóñîâêàõ\ Îí íèêîãäà
íå ðåøàë= êàêîå íàïðàâëåíèå áèçíåñà ôîðñèðîâàííî ðàçâèâàòü= êàêîå ñâîðà÷èâàòü= ÷òî ïîêóïàòü= à
÷òî ïðîäàâàòü= êàê ïîäáèðàòü êàäðû è êàê èìè óïðàâëÿòü\ Ýòî áûëî
çà ìíîé= Âèòàëèé ñàì çíàë= ÷òî íåêîìïåòåíòåí â ýòèõ âîïðîñàõ\
Ìû âìåñòå íà÷èíàëè áèçíåñ= òîãäà íèêòî íå çíàë= íà ÷òî îí ñïîñîáåí\ Âèòàëèé - ìîé äðóã= îí íèêîãäà ìåíÿ íå ïðåäàâàë= ïîýòîìó îí
îñòàåòñÿ ìîèì ïàðòíåðîì= à ÿ ðàä=
÷òî ñäåëàë äðóãà áîãàòûì ÷åëîâåêîì\
- Âàñèëèé Àíèñèìîâ çàíèìàë
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áûëà~
- Ïðèíàäëåæàùèå Àíèñèìîâó çàâîäû áûëè êðóïíûìè êëèåíòàìè
áàíêà= íî åãî ñîáñòâåííèêîì Àíèñèìîâ íèêîãäà íå áûë\ Ó ìåíÿ áûëè
ïàðòíåðû â ïðîìûøëåííûõ ïðåäïðèÿòèÿõ= à â áàíêå= åñëè íå ñ÷èòàòü òåõ= êòî ïîëó÷èë äîëè â îáìåí
íà ïîìåùåíèÿ= ñîâëàäåëüöåì áûë
òîëüêî Ìàëêèí\ Êàæäûé êðóïíûé
êëèåíò ïðîñèëñÿ â ïàéùèêè= íî ÿ
âñåì îòêàçûâàë\ ß âîîáùå ñòàðàþñü èçáåãàòü ïàðòíåðñòâà\ Ïàðòíåð
äëÿ ìåíÿ - ýòî î÷åíü ñåðüåçíî= ê
òîìó æå åñòü ðèñê= ÷òî ïàðòíåð ìîæåò ïîäâåñòè\
-  òå âðåìåíà= êîãäà âû íà÷èíàëè áèçíåñ= ëþáàÿ ñòðóêòóðà= çàðàáàòûâàþùàÿ äåíüãè= ïðèâëåêàëà âíèìàíèå áàíäèòîâ\ Âû ñòàëêèâàëèñü ñ òàêèìè ïðîáëåìàìè~
- Ìû ñëèøêîì ðàíî íà÷àëè çàíèìàòüñÿ êîìïüþòåðíûì áèçíåñîì= è ðýêåòèðû ïðîñòî ïðîñïàëè
ýòîò ìîìåíò\ À âîò â áàíêå äåéñòâèòåëüíî ïðèøëîñü ñòîëêíóòüñÿ ñ òàêèìè ïðîáëåìàìè\ Íî ÿ ïðåêðàñíî çíàþ| ñòîèò îäèí ðàç ïîéòè ñ
íèìè [áàíäèòàìè] íà äîãîâîð= ýòî
íàâñåãäà òåáÿ ñ íèìè ñâÿæåò\ ß âûñòîÿë è= êñòàòè= ñ÷èòàþ= ÷òî ìîÿ ãëàâíàÿ çàñëóãà - ÷òî ÿ íå ïóñòèë â
ñâîé áèçíåñ íè îäíîãî èç òåõ= êîãî
ñ÷èòàþò áàíäèòîì\ À ïîçæå ÿ ñòàë
ñîòðóäíè÷àòü ñ ïðàâîîõðàíèòå-
gbhdtkb bynthdbe
ëüíûìè îðãàíàìè\ Â 1993 ã\ íå áåç
ïîìîùè ðóêîâîäèòåëÿ ÐÓÁÎÏ Âëàäèìèðà Ðóøàéëî= êîòîðûé ïîìîã
ìíå íàéòè áðàòà= ïî ìîåé èíèöèàòèâå ïðè ÐÓÁÎÏ áûëà ñîçäàíà
ñòðóêòóðà= êîòîðàÿ ôèíàíñèðîâàëàñü áàíêîì= à âïîñëåäñòâèè è äðóãèìè êðóïíûìè êîììåð÷åñêèìè
ñòðóêòóðàìè\ Åå ñîòðóäíèêè ïðèåçæàëè ïî îäíîìó íàøåìó çâîíêó=
è äîëãîå âðåìÿ ýòà ñòðóêòóðà ýôôåêòèâíî ðàáîòàëà\ À â 1997 ã\ ìû ñòîëêíóëèñü ñ ïðîáëåìîé íåâîçâðàòà
êðåäèòîâ= è= âìåñòî òîãî ÷òîáû ïîìîãàòü íàì= åå ñîòðóäíèêè ñòàëè
áðàòü âçÿòêè îò òåõ= êòî áûë íàì
äîëæåí\ Ïîñëå ýòîãî ÿ ñêàçàë òîãäàøíåìó ãëàâå ýòîé ñòðóêòóðû
Àëåêñàíäðó Êà÷óðó= ÷òî ïðåêðàùàþ ñîòðóäíè÷åñòâî\
- Íî âåäü â òå âðåìåíà íåâîçìîæíî áûëî äåëàòü áèçíåñ= íå èìåÿ
“êðûøè” ñðåäè ÷èíîâíèêîâ èëè
òåõ æå áàíäèòîâ\
- Ýòî áûëî âîçìîæíî= òîëüêî
î÷åíü ñëîæíî\ Íàø áàíê íèêîãäà
íå áûë â ÷èñëå òàê íàçûâàåìûõ áëàòíûõ áàíêîâ\ Ïî êîëè÷åñòâó ïëàòåæåê “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” ïðåâîñõîäèë äàæå Ñáåðáàíê - ýòî ãîâîðèò î òîì= ÷òî ìû äåðæàëèñü íà
ìåëêîé è ñðåäíåé êëèåíòóðå\
Ïîêðîâèòåëüñòâîì ÷èíîâíèêîâ ÿ
òîæå íèêîãäà íå ïîëüçîâàëñÿ\
- Íî îäèí ÷èíîâíèê òî÷íî ïðèíåñ ïîëüçó âàøåìó áàíêó\  ïåðèîä= êîãäà Åâãåíèé Áû÷êîâ âîçãëàâëÿë Ðîñêîìäðàãìåò= “Ðîñêðåäó” óäàëîñü ñòàòü êðóïíûì èãðîêîì íà ðûíêå çîëîòà= à âïîñëåäñòâèè Áû÷êîâ ñòàë âèöå-ïðåçèäåíòîì áàíêà\
- Ñâÿçü Áû÷êîâà ñ áàíêîì ïðîâåðÿëà Ñ÷åòíàÿ ïàëàòà= è îíà íå
íàøëà íèêàêèõ íàðóøåíèé= êîòîðûå îí êàê ÷èíîâíèê äåëàë\ Áû÷êîâ
áûë ïîëåçåí áàíêó òîëüêî òåì= ÷òî
ïðèâåë â íåãî ïàðó êëèåíòîâ\
- “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” è “Ìåòàëëîèíâåñò” âëàäåëè ìíîãèìè ðàçíîïðîôèëüíûìè àêòèâàìè\
Êàêîé âàø áèçíåñ îêàçàëñÿ íàèáîëåå ïðèáûëüíûì~
- Ïî ðåíòàáåëüíîñòè - Ñòîéëåíñêèé ÃÎÊ= ïî îòäà÷å íà âëîæåííûé êàïèòàë - çàâîä “Êàó÷óê”\ Ìû
êóïèëè åãî àêöèè â 1991 ã\ çà
$150 000= à íà åãî ïðîäàæå çàðàáîòàþ ìèíèìóì $500 ìëí - çàâîä â öåíòðå Ìîñêâû èìååò áîëüøóþ òåððèòîðèþ= íà íåé ñêîðî íà÷íåòñÿ
áîëüøîå ñòðîèòåëüñòâî\
- À êîãäà ïî êàêîìó ïðèíöèïó
âû ïîêóïàëè ïðîìûøëåííûå ïðåäïðèÿòèÿ~
- Íà÷àëàñü ïðèâàòèçàöèÿ= ó áàíêà áûëè äåíüãè= ÿ ëè÷íî ïðîñìàòðèâàë ñïèñêè âûñòàâëÿåìûõ íà
ïðîäàæó ïðåäïðèÿòèé= îöåíèâàë
èõ ïîêàçàòåëè= ïåðñïåêòèâû\ Îãðàíè÷åíèå ïðè âûáîðå áûëî îäíî| ÿ
íèêîãäà íå ïðåòåíäîâàë íà àêòèâû=
çà êîòîðûå ìîãëà ðàçâåðíóòüñÿ
êðèìèíàëüíàÿ âîéíà= êîòîðûå ìîãëè ïîäâåðãíóòü ðèñêó ìîþ æèçíü
èëè æèçíü ìîèõ ñîòðóäíèêîâ\ Ïîýòîìó áàíê íå ó÷àñòâîâàë â ïîêóïêå íåôòÿíûõ= àëþìèíèåâûõ= ñòàëåëèòåéíûõ ïðåäïðèÿòèé\
- “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” ó÷àñòâîâàë âî ìíîãèõ çàëîãîâûõ àóêöèîíàõ= íî íèãäå íå îäåðæàë ïîáåäó\
Ïî÷åìó~
- Áàíê ïîäàâàë çàÿâêè íà ó÷àñòèå â çàëîãîâûõ àóêöèîíàõ íå äëÿ
òîãî= ÷òîáû ïîëó÷èòü êîíòðîëü íàä
ïðîäàâàåìûìè àêòèâàìè= à ÷òîáû
ñîðâàòü àóêöèîíû\ Åñëè áû ìû âûèãðàëè= òî âåðíóëè áû àêöèè ãîñóäàðñòâó\ Òîãäà êîììóíèñòû àòàêîâàëè ïðèâàòèçàöèþ= çàëîãîâûå àóêöèîíû äàâàëè èì ìîùíûé êîçûðü=
áûë ðèñê= ÷òî îíè âîîáùå ñìîãóò
ñîðâàòü âñþ ïðèâàòèçàöèþ\ Âåäü
ïðèâàòèçàöèîííûå çàêîíû ïèñàëèñü íàñêîðî= îíè áûëè íåñîâåðøåííû= à ïðîäàæà ÷åðåç çàëîãîâûå àóêöèîíû è âîâñå áûëà íåçàêîííà\
- Òî åñòü âû ñïàñàëè ïðèâàòèçàöèþ~
- Íå òîëüêî\ Çàëîãîâûå àóêöèîíû
íàðóøàëè ñëîæèâøèéñÿ íà ðûíêå
áàëàíñ ñèë= èõ ïîáåäèòåëè íåçàêîííî ïîëó÷àëè êîíêóðåíòíîå ïðåèìóùåñòâî ïåðåäî ìíîé\ Åñòåñòâåííî= ÿ õîòåë ýòîìó ïîìåøàòü\ À ïîäíèìàë ÿ øóìèõó= ÷òîáû äîíåñòè
ñâîþ ïîçèöèþ äî ïðàâèòåëüñòâà=
ïðåçèäåíòà\ Íî òîëüêî íàæèë ñåáå
ñåðüåçíûõ âðàãîâ\ Â òî âðåìÿ ïðîõîäèëè âûáîðû â Ãîñäóìó= [äâèæåíèå] ÍÄÐ [“Íàø äîì - Ðîññèÿ”]=
ëèäåðîì êîòîðîãî áûë ïðåìüåð
[Âèêòîð] ×åðíîìûðäèí= ïðîâàëèëîñü\ Ýòî âûçâàëî êðèòèêó
Åëüöèíà= à îäèí èç ÷ëåíîâ òîãäàøíåãî êàáèíåòà ìèíèñòðîâ ðàññêàçûâàë ìíå= ÷òî= îïðàâäûâàÿñü=
×åðíîìûðäèí íàçâàë ïðè÷èíîé
íåóäà÷è íà âûáîðàõ íàøè âûñòóïëåíèÿ ïðîòèâ çàëîãîâûõ àóêöèîíîâ
è øóì= êîòîðûé ìû ïîäíÿëè â
ÑÌÈ\ È õîòÿ ÿ íå ìîãó óòâåðæäàòü=
÷òî áûëî ïðÿìîå óêàçàíèå ×åðíîìûðäèíà= ó ìåíÿ ñîõðàíèëèñü âñå
äîêóìåíòû= ïîäòâåðæäàþùèå= ÷òî
áóêâàëüíî êàæäàÿ êîíòðîëüíàÿ
ñòðóêòóðà= ñóùåñòâîâàâøàÿ òîãäà â
Ðîññèè= â òå÷åíèå íåäåëè íàíåñëà
íàì âèçèò| âàëþòíûé êîíòðîëü= ðàéîííàÿ è ãîðîäñêàÿ íàëîãîâûå
èíñïåêöèè= íàëîãîâàÿ ïîëèöèÿ= ôèíàíñîâûé êîíòðîëü= Öåíòðàëüíûé
áàíê\ È ïðîèçîøëî ýòî ñðàçó ïîñëå âûáîðîâ\ Íàèáîëüøóþ àêòèâíîñòü ïðîÿâëÿëà íàëîãîâàÿ ïîëèöèÿ îíà ïðîâåðÿëà áàíê áîëüøå ãîäà=
íî íèêàêèõ íàðóøåíèé íå îáíàðóæèëà\ Òîãäà íàëîãîâàÿ ïîëèöèÿ
íà÷àëà äàâèòü íà ìåæäóíàðîäíîãî
àóäèòîðà Arthur Andersen= âûáèâàòü èç íèõ äîêóìåíòû íà áàíê= â
ïðîòèâíîì ñëó÷àå óãðîæàÿ çàïðåòèòü ðàáîòàòü â Ðîññèè\ ß áðîñèëñÿ çâîíèòü òîãäàøíåìó íà÷àëüíèêó íàëîãîâîé ïîëèöèè
[Ñåðãåþ] Àëìàçîâó\ Ìû ñ íèì
âñòðåòèëèñü\ Íèêîãäà íå çàáóäó òîò
ðàçãîâîð\ ß ïûòàëñÿ ïîíÿòü= ïî÷åìó
åãî ñîòðóäíèêè õóëèãàíÿò= âåäü
ðñòâó\ Óâåðÿþ= âû íå íàéäåòå äðóãîãî ñëó÷àÿ äîáðîâîëüíîãî âîçâðàòà
àêöèé â ãîññîáñòâåííîñòü\ Òîëüêî
÷åðåç ïîëòîðà ãîäà ìû ñìîãëè çàíîâî âûêóïèòü àêöèè ÃÎÊà íà äåíåæíîì àóêöèîíå\ Ó ìåíÿ âîîáùå
áûëà äðóãàÿ òàêòèêà| ÿ ïîêóïàë
àêòèâû= çà êîòîðûå íå áûëî áîðüáû=
êîòîðûå áûëè íåäîîöåíåíû è äàæå
óáûòî÷íû\ Âñå áîðîëèñü çà ñòàëåëèòåéíûå ïðåäïðèÿòèÿ= à ïîñòàâùèêè ñûðüÿ äëÿ íèõ íèêîãî íå èíòåðåñîâàëè; ÿ òîãäà êóïèë Ìèõàéëîâñêèé= Ñòîéëåíñêèé= Ëåáåäèíñêèé
ãîðíî-îáîãàòèòåëüíûå êîìáèíàòû\
- Ïî ðåíòàáåëüíîñòè= êîòîðàÿ
äîõîäèò äî 500%= ÃÎÊè ñåé÷àñ
ïðåâîñõîäÿò äàæå ñòàëåëèòåéíûå
ïðåäïðèÿòèÿ\
- Òàêàÿ ðåíòàáåëüíîñòü äåéñòâèòåëüíî áûëà= íî âûñîêóþ ïðèáûëü
ÃÎÊè ñòàëè ïðèíîñèòü òîëüêî ïîñëåäíèå òðè-÷åòûðå ãîäà\ À äî ýòîãî
ïÿòü-øåñòü ëåò èõ ïðèõîäèëîñü
ñóáñèäèðîâàòü= äàæå çàðïëàòó âîçèòü ñîòðóäíèêàì ýòèõ êîìáèíàòîâ
èç Ìîñêâû\ Ìåòàëëóðãè äèêòîâàëè
êîìáèíàòàì= ïî êàêîé öåíå îíè áóäóò çàêóïàòü ñûðüå= è îáû÷íî ïîêóïàëè íèæå ñåáåñòîèìîñòè\ Ïåðåëîìèòü ñèòóàöèþ ìíå ñòîèëî áîëüøèõ óñèëèé| ïî ìîåé èíèöèàòèâå
ðîññèéñêèå ÃÎÊè è ÑîêîëîâñêîÑàðáàéñêîå ÃÏÎ [Êàçàõñòàí] çàêëþ÷èëè êàðòåëüíîå ñîãëàøåíèå è
ñîêðàòèëè îáúåìû ïðîèçâîäñòâà= ò\
å\ óáðàëè ñ ðûíêà ëèøíåå ñûðüå=
è òîëüêî ïîñëå ýòîãî ìåòàëëóðãè
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áàíê èì è òàê âñå äîêóìåíòû äàåò=
à îí ìíå îòâåòèë| “Âñå ó âàñ áóäåò
íîðìàëüíî= òîëüêî òû ìíå ñêàæè=
êàê òû ïîêóïàåøü ìîèõ ñîòðóäíèêîâ~ ß òðåòèé ðàç ìåíÿþ ëó÷øèõ
ñâîèõ ëþäåé= êîòîðûå òåáÿ ïðîâåðÿþò= à îíè âñå ðàâíî íå ìîãóò ïîëó÷èòü íèêàêèõ ðåçóëüòàòîâ”\ ß
óäèâèëñÿ= âíà÷àëå íå ïîíÿë\ Îí ïîÿñíèë| “Êàê òû èõ îõìóðÿåøü~ Êàê
òû ñ íèìè äîãîâàðèâàåøüñÿ~” ß
îòâåòèë| “Äà Áîæå óïàñè! ß ñ íàëîãîâîé ïîëèöèåé íå ðàçãîâàðèâàë
íè ðàçó è íå ñîáèðàþñü\ ß ïîíèìàþ= ÷òî âàì âñå ýòî çàêàçàëè!” Îí=
êîíå÷íî= íå ïðèçíàëñÿ= ÷òî ïîëó÷èë çàêàç\ Òàê ìû è ðàññòàëèñü íè
ñ ÷åì\
- Òðóäíî ïîâåðèòü= ÷òî âû íå
ó÷àñòâîâàëè â ñàìûõ êðóïíûõ
ïðèâàòèçàöèîííûõ ñäåëêàõ èç
èäåéíûõ ñîîáðàæåíèé~!
- Òåì íå ìåíåå ýòî òàê\ Íàïðèìåð= êîãäà ÷åðåç ãîä ïîñëå çàëîãîâûõ àóêöèîíîâ ïðîäàâàëñÿ ãîñïàêåò ÒÍÊ= íà ïîëîâèíó ïàêåòà ïðåòåíäîâàëè Ìèõàèë Ôðèäìàí è
Ãåðìàí Õàí= à âòîðóþ ïîëîâèíó
Âèêòîð Âåêñåëüáåðã ïðåäëîæèë ìíå
êóïèòü ñ íèì ñîâìåñòíî\ ß ñîãëàñèëñÿ= ìû ñ Âèêòîðîì áîëåå äâóõ
ìåñÿöåâ ãîòîâèëèñü ê àóêöèîíó= íî
íåîæèäàííî ó íåãî íàøëèñü ïðîòèâíèêè\ Áîëüøîé øóì ïî ïîâîäó
åãî íåïðàâîìåðíîñòè ïîäíÿë ãåíäèðåêòîð ÒÍÊ Âèêòîð Ïàëèé\ È
â ñàìûé ïîñëåäíèé ìîìåíò ÿ îòêàçàëñÿ îò ó÷àñòèÿ â àóêöèîíå\
- Âåêñåëüáåðã è “Àëüôà-ãðóïï”
çàðàáîòàëè ïîòîì íà ÒÍÊ ìíîãî
äåíåã\ Íå æàëååòå= ÷òî îòêàçàëèñü
îò ïîêóïêè~
- ß íå ìîã ó÷àñòâîâàòü â ñäåëêå=
êîòîðàÿ âûçûâàåò ó ìåíÿ õîòÿ áû
ìàëåéøèå ñîìíåíèÿ â åå çàêîííîñòè\ Ïðèâåäó åùå ïðèìåð| ìû íà
èíâåñòêîíêóðñå êóïèëè 20% àêöèé
Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà\ Íî âñêîðå â
èíâåñòïðîãðàììå áûëè îáíàðóæåíû ïðîñ÷åòû= à çàêîíîäàòåëüñòâî
íå ïîçâîëÿëî åå ìåíÿòü\ Ñàìîâîëüíî ìû ìåíÿòü ïðîãðàììó íå
ñòàëè è âåðíóëè àêöèè ãîñóäà-
âïàëè â çàâèñèìîñòü îò ÃÎÊîâ\
- Âû ãîâîðèòå= ÷òî íèêîãäà íå
áûëè òàì= ãäå åñòü ðèñê= à ñàìè â
1997 ã\ îêàçàëèñü â îäíîé èç ñàìûõ ãîðÿ÷èõ òî÷åê — íà Êðàñíîÿðñêîì àëþìèíèåâîì çàâîäå
(ÊðÀÇ)\
- Àêöèè ÊðÀÇà ÿ ïîêóïàë íà âòîðè÷íîì ðûíêå= ïðè÷åì áûë äàëåêî
íå ñàìûì êðóïíûì àêöèîíåðîì çàâîäà\ Òàê ïîëó÷èëîñü= ÷òî â Êðàñíîÿðñêå ÿ íà÷àë ðàáîòàòü çàäîëãî
äî ïðèõîäà íà ÊðÀÇ\ Åùå â 1992 ã\
áàíê ïðèîáðåë áîëåå 30% àêöèé
Êðàñíîÿðñêîãî ìåòàëëóðãè÷åñêîãî
çàâîäà\ Çàâîä íàõîäèòñÿ ÷åðåç çàáîð îò ÊðÀÇà= äåëàåò ïðîäóêöèþ
èç àëþìèíèÿ= íî â òîò ìîìåíò îí
íèêîãî íå èíòåðåñîâàë è ñòîÿë= ïîòîìó ÷òî ìåòàëë åìó íå äàâàëè\ Äî
òåõ ïîð= ïîêà â 1994 ã\ ñ ïîäà÷è
àêöèîíåðîâ ÊðÀÇà íå áûëî ïðèíÿòî ðåøåíèå ïåðåâåñòè íà áàëàíñ
ÊðàÌÇà ïî 20% àêöèé ÊðÀÇà è
À÷èíñêîãî ãëèíîçåìíîãî êîìáèíàòà= êîòîðûå íàõîäèëèñü â ãîññîáñòâåííîñòè\
- À âû ê ýòîìó ðóêó íå ïðèêëàäûâàëè~
- ß íè÷åãî îá ýòîì íå çíàë\
Ñîáñòâåííèêè ÊðÀÇà äóìàëè= ÷òî
âïîñëåäñòâèè ïîëó÷àò êîíòðîëü
íàä ýòèìè ïàêåòàìè= è áûëè ñòðàøíî óäèâëåíû= êîãäà óçíàëè= ÷òî ó
ÊðàÌÇà óæå äàâíî åñòü êðóïíûé
àêöèîíåð\ Îíè ïðåäëîæèëè ìíå
ïðîäàòü ýòîò ïàêåò= è â 1996 ã\ ÿ
åãî ïðîäàë î÷åíü äîðîãî\ À åùå ÷åðåç ãîä ñðåäè àêöèîíåðîâ ÊðÀÇà
íà÷àëèñü ðàçíîãëàñèÿ\ Âàñèëèé
Àíèñèìîâ õîðîøî çíàë òðîèõ èç
íèõ - Àëåêñàíäðà Êîëïàêîâà= Âëàäèìèðà Ðàòíèêîâà è Îëåãà Êèìà=
êîòîðûì ïðèíàäëåæàëî 28%\ Îí
ìíå ñêàçàë= ÷òî Êîëïàêîâ è Ðàòíèêîâ èùóò ïîêóïàòåëåé íà 48% àêöèé
çàâîäà\ Íî ìû ñ Âàñèëèåì êóïèëè
ó íèõ àêöèè òîëüêî ïîñëå òîãî= êàê
îíè âåðíóëè 20% Àíàòîëèþ Áûêîâó
è Ãåííàäèþ Äðóæèíèíó è Áûêîâ
ñîãëàñèëñÿ= ÷òî ìû áóäåì ðàáîòàòü
âìåñòå\
- À ïî÷åìó Áûêîâ òîãäà áûë íà-
çíà÷åí âèöå-ïðåçèäåíòîì “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà”~
- Îí íå áûë ÷ëåíîì ñîâåòà áàíêà= íå ïîëó÷àë çàðïëàòó è íå
èãðàë â áàíêå íèêàêîé ðîëè\ Â áàíêå âñåãäà áûëî ìíîãî âèöå-ïðåçèäåíòîâ= ýòî áûëà ìîÿ èäåÿ| ìû
íàçíà÷àëè íà ýòîò ïîñò ðóêîâîäèòåëåé èëè ñîáñòâåííèêîâ êðóïíûõ
ïðåäïðèÿòèé - êëèåíòîâ áàíêà\
Ëþäÿì áûëî ïðèÿòíî= íî ïðàêòè÷åñêè îíè òîëüêî ïîëó÷àëè âèçèòêè ñ íàäïèñÿìè “âèöå-ïðåçèäåíò”\
- Êàêîé ïàêåò àêöèé ÊðÀÇà âàì
ïðèíàäëåæàë~ Êîãäà è ïî÷åìó âû
óøëè ñ çàâîäà~
- Ìû ñ Âàñèëèåì [Àíèñèìîâûì]
êóïèëè ó Êîëïàêîâà è ñîòîâàðèùåé íà äâîèõ 14%\ Ïî 5% ïîòîì âûêóïèëè ó Glencore è Daewoo= òàêèì îáðàçîì= êîãäà ÿ óõîäèë ñ
ÊðÀÇà= ó ìåíÿ áûëî 12%\ À áûë ÿ
íà ÊðÀÇå ìåíüøå ãîäà - óøåë ïîñëå òîãî= êàê ó Áûêîâà è äðóãèõ
àêöèîíåðîâ ÊðÀÇà íà÷àëñÿ êîíôëèêò ñ ãóáåðíàòîðîì [êðàÿ] Àëåêñàíäðîì Ëåáåäåì\
- Ãîâîðÿò= ÷òî âû ñïîíñèðîâàëè
Ëåáåäÿ\
- ß ðàñêðó÷èâàë Ëåáåäÿ= êîãäà îí
áûë áðîøåííûì ïîëèòèêîì\ Ìåíÿ
òîãäà âêëþ÷èëè â òàê íàçûâàåìóþ
“ñåìèáàíêèðùèíó”\ ×ëåíû ïðåäâûáîðíîãî øòàáà Åëüöèíà= êîòîðûé âîçãëàâëÿë Àíàòîëèé ×óáàéñ=
íå âîñïðèíèìàëè Ëåáåäÿ âñåðüåç\
À ÿ ðàçìåñòèë â îôèñå áàíêà åãî
ïðåäâûáîðíûé øòàá= ôèíàíñèðîâàë åãî ðàñêðóòêó\ Çà ìåñÿö ïåðåä
âûáîðàìè âñå ïîíÿëè= ÷òî ÿ áûë
ïðàâ| ó Åëüöèíà áûë íèçêèé ðåéòèíã= Ëåáåäü íà âûáîðàõ îòäàë
ñâîè ãîëîñà Åëüöèíó è òåì ñàìûì
îáåñïå÷èë åìó ïîáåäó\ Ìíå æå òîãäà íèêòî äàæå ñïàñèáî íå ñêàçàë=
à êîãäà Ëåáåäÿ ñíèìàëè [ñ ïîñòà
ðóêîâîäèòåëÿ Ñîâáåçà]= âñå âñïîìíèëè= ÷òî ýòî ÿ åãî ïðèâåë= è ñäåëàëè ìåíÿ êðàéíèì\ Ýòî áûë åäèíñòâåííûé ðàç= êîãäà ÿ ó÷àñòâîâàë
â ïîëèòèêå\ Ïîòîì= êîãäà Ëåáåäü
èçáèðàëñÿ ãóáåðíàòîðîì= ÿ ïî ñòàðîé ïàìÿòè ïîìîã åìó êàäðàìè= íî
íàïðÿìóþ íå ôèíàíñèðîâàë è íå
áûë ñ íèì íèêàê ñâÿçàí\
“ß ÌÎÃ ÏÎÒÅÐZÒÜ ÂÑÅ”
— Âû ïîêóïàëè ðàçíîîáðàçíûå
àêòèâû= íî â êîíöå 90-õ èíâåñòèöèîííàÿ àêòèâíîñòü ñíèçèëàñü\ Ñ
÷åì ýòî ñâÿçàíî~
- Ïîñëå äåôîëòà 1998 ã\ âñå ñèëû
áûëè áðîøåíû íà ðåøåíèå ïðîáëåì “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà”\
Ïîäâåëè òîãäà= êñòàòè= ÷èíîâíèêè\
Íàêàíóíå îáúÿâëåíèÿ î äåôîëòå
íàñ= âëàäåëüöåâ êðóïíåéøèõ áàíêîâ= ïðåäóïðåäèëè îá ýòîì\ ß áûë
êàòåãîðè÷åñêè ïðîòèâ îáúÿâëåíèÿ
äåôîëòà= íî ìåíÿ âñå óñïîêàèâàëè=
à ðóêîâîäèòåëü ÖÁ Ñåðãåé Äóáèíèí ïîîáåùàë= ÷òî= åñëè áàíêó ïîòðåáóåòñÿ êðåäèò= áàíê åãî ïîëó÷èò\ Îáúÿâëÿåòñÿ äåôîëò= è âêëàä÷èêè êèäàþòñÿ çàáèðàòü äåíüãè\
Åñëè áû ìû= êàê ìíîãèå äðóãèå òîãäà= íå ñòàëè âûäàâàòü äåíüãè= ïîñëåäñòâèÿ êðèçèñà áûëè áû íå
ñòîëü ðàçðóøèòåëüíû äëÿ áàíêà\ Íî
ìû ÷åñòíî â òå÷åíèå äâóõ íåäåëü
âûäàëè âñåì æåëàþùèì $180 ìëí\
Êîãäà äåíüãè çàêîí÷èëèñü= ÿ íàïîìíèë Äóáèíèíó î åãî îáåùàíèè= íî
îí êðåäèò íå äàë\
- Êàêèìè îêàçàëèñü äëÿ áàíêà
ïîñëåäñòâèÿ äåôîëòà~ ×òî âû ïðåäïðèíÿëè äëÿ âûâîäà áàíêà èç
êðèçèñà~
- ß òîãäà îêàçàëñÿ ïåðåä ñëîæíûì
âûáîðîì - áàíêðîòèòü áàíê èëè ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíî ïðîâîäèòü ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèþ\ Õîòÿ òàêîå ðåøåíèå
äàëîñü íåëåãêî= ÿ âûáðàë ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèþ\ Ýêîíîìè÷åñêîãî ñìûñëà äëÿ ìåíÿ= êàê àêöèîíåðà= îíà
íå èìåëà= òàê êàê ÿ ïîíèìàë= ÷òî
ðûíî÷íàÿ ñòîèìîñòü ðåñòðóêòóðèðîâàííîãî áàíêà áóäåò î÷åíü íèçêîé\ Ðàçðûâ ìåæäó ïàññèâàìè è
àêòèâàìè áàíêà íà òîò ìîìåíò ñîñòàâëÿë îêîëî $1 ìëðä\
Ïàðàäîêñàëüíî= íî îöåíî÷íàÿ
ñòîèìîñòü âñåõ ìîèõ àêòèâîâ= íèêàê íå ñâÿçàííûõ ñ áàíêîì= â òî
âðåìÿ òàêæå åäâà äîñòèãàëà
$1 ìëðä\ Òîãäà ÿ ïðèíÿë ðåøåíèå
ïîä îáåñïå÷åíèå äîëãîâ áàíêà çàëîæèòü âñå ïðèíàäëåæàùèå ìíå
àêöèè ïðîìûøëåííûõ ïðåäïðèÿòèé - Ëåáåäèíñêîãî= Ñòîéëåíñêîãî=
Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊîâ= “Òóëà÷å-
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êîòîðîãî ìíå ïðèøëîñü ïîòîì ïðîäàòü= êëèåíòû “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà” ïîíåñëè áû êðàéíå îùóòèìûå ïîòåðè= íî äîïóñòèòü ýòîãî â
ñèëó ñâîèõ æèçíåííûõ ïðèíöèïîâ
ÿ íå ìîã\ Ýòî ìàëî êòî ïîíèìàë —
çíàêîìûå áèçíåñìåíû ñ÷èòàëè
ìåíÿ åäâà ëè íå ñàìîóáèéöåé\ (ÐÊ
ïåðåøåë ïîä óïðàâëåíèå ÀÐÊÎ â
1999 ã\ Ïîëó÷èâ â ñîáñòâåííîñòü
25% + 1 àêöèÿ áàíêà= à åùå 50% - â
óïðàâëåíèå= àãåíòñòâî îòêðûëî åìó
êðåäèòíóþ ëèíèþ íà 4=5 ìëðä ðóá\
 òîò ìîìåíò êðåäèòîðñêàÿ çàäîëæåííîñòü ÐÊ ñîñòàâëÿëà îêîëî
$1 ìëðä\ Â àâãóñòå 2000 ã\ áûëî
óòâåðæäåíî ìèðîâîå ñîãëàøåíèå=
ïî êîòîðîìó âêëàä÷èêè (òðåáîâàíèÿ - 1=8 ìëðä ðóá\) ïîëó÷èëè åäèíîâðåìåííóþ
âûïëàòó
äî
30 000 ðóá\ è âåêñåëÿ ÐÊ= à êîðïîðàòèâíûå êðåäèòîðû (òðåáîâàíèÿ 21 ìëðä ðóá\) - äî 10% îò òðåáîâàíèé äåíüãàìè è âåêñåëÿ áàíêà ñî
ñðîêîì ïîãàøåíèÿ äî 10 ëåò\ Ê
èþíþ 2003 ã\ áàíê ïîãàñèë 90% îáÿçàòåëüñòâ ïåðåä ôèçè÷åñêèìè ëèöàìè\  íîÿáðå 2003 ã\ êàïèòàë ÐÊ
âíîâü ñòàë ïîëîæèòåëüíûì\ Ïî ñëîâàì ïðåäñòàâèòåëåé ÀÐÊÎ= ýòî ïðîèçîøëî â ðåçóëüòàòå êîíâåðòàöèè
äîëãîâ áàíêà â åãî êàïèòàë â õîäå
äîïýìèññèè\)
- Êàêèå àêòèâû âàì ïðèøëîñü
ïðîäàòü äëÿ ðàñïëàòû ñ êðåäèòîðàìè~
- Ïàêåòû= ïîçâîëÿâøèå êîíòðîëèðîâàòü Ëåáåäèíñêèé ÃÎÊ= Îðëîâñêèé ñòàëåïðîêàòíûé çàâîä=
“Òóëà÷åðìåò”\ Ïðîäàâàë òî= íà ÷òî
áûë íàèáîëüøèé ñïðîñ\ Êñòàòè=
àêöèè Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà òîãäà
íèêîìó íå áûëè íóæíû= çà íèõ òîãäà è $50 ìëí íå äàë áû íèêòî\ Âñåãî
æå àêöèîíåðû áàíêà ïåðå÷èñëèëè
êðåäèòîðàì îêîëî $450 ìëí - ýòà
ñóììà âêëþ÷àåò â ñåáÿ äîõîä îò ðåàëèçàöèè àêöèé è êðåäèòû ÀÐÊÎ=
êîòîðûå â ïîñëåäóþùåì ìû ïîãàøàëè îò ñâîåãî áèçíåñà\ Êñòàòè=
åñëè áû ÿ òîãäà îñòàâèë èõ è ïðîäàë ñåé÷àñ= òî âûðó÷èë áû åùå
ïëþñ $3 ìëðä\
Íî ÿ ìîã ïîòåðÿòü âñå\ Åñëè áû
ïîäúåì ýêîíîìèêè â ñòðàíå çàòîðìîçèëñÿ åùå íà ïîëãîäà-ãîä= ÿ áûë
áû âûíóæäåí ïðîäàòü âñþ çàëîæåííóþ ñîáñòâåííîñòü è îñòàëñÿ áû
íè ñ ÷åì\  ïðîøëîì ãîäó ÐÊ çàâåðøèë ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèþ\ ß óâåðåí=
÷òî ýòî ïîäíÿëî íå òîëüêî ïðåñòèæ
ÐÊ è åãî àêöèîíåðîâ= íî è äîâåðèå
êî âñåé áàíêîâñêîé ñèñòåìå
Ðîññèè\ Çàðóáåæíûå áàíêèðû ñ
ïðèñòàëüíûì âíèìàíèåì ñëåäèëè
òîãäà çà ñèòóàöèåé â ñòðàíå= à ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèÿ íàøåãî áàíêà ïîêàçàëà= ÷òî â Ðîññèè âîçìîæíû
ïðèìåðû öèâèëèçîâàííîãî ðåøåíèÿ ýòîé ïðîáëåìû\
- Íå æàëååòå ñåãîäíÿ= ÷òî ïîøëè íà òàêóþ ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèþ~
- ß ãîðæóñü òåì= ÷òî òàê ïîñòóïèë\ ß ñîõðàíèë áàíê= êîòîðûé ñîçäàë\ Ðåñòðóêòóðèçàöèÿ ÐÊ - åäèíñòâåííûé ñëó÷àé â ìèðîâîé ïðàêòèêå= êîãäà ÷àñòíàÿ êîìïàíèÿ
îòâåòèëà ïî äîëãàì= âîçíèêøèì ïî
âèíå ïðàâèòåëüñòâà\ Õîòÿ= êîíå÷íî=
íåìíîãî ãîðüêî= ÷òî ìàëî êòî îöåíèë òî= ÷òî ìíå ïðèøëîñü ñäåëàòü\
Íî ÿ íå æàëåþ\ Íó íå ïîòåðÿë
áû ÿ ñòîëüêî äåíåã= â ìîåé æèçíè
ýòî íè÷åãî íå èçìåíèëî áû\ Äåíüãè
äëÿ ìåíÿ íå èìåþò ñàìîöåííîñòè;
ëèøíèå äåíüãè - êàê ëèøíèé æèð
ó ÷åëîâåêà| îíè îòÿãîùàþò è ñîçäàþò äîïîëíèòåëüíûå ïðîáëåìû\
- À ÷òî ñâÿçûâàëî âàñ ñ ïðåäïðèíèìàòåëåì Àðêàäèåì Ãàéäàìàêîì=
êîòîðûé â 2000 ã\ çàíÿë ïîñò ïðåäñåäàòåëÿ ñîâåòà äèðåêòîðîâ
“Ðîñêðåäà”~ Áûëè ëè ó âàñ ñîâìåñòíûå ïðîåêòû~ Ãîâîðÿò= îí õîòåë ïðèñîåäèíèòüñÿ ê ïîêóïêå
Îðëîâñêîãî ñòàëåïðîêàòíîãî çàâîäà\
- ß ïîçíàêîìèëñÿ ñ Ãàéäàìàêîì
â 1991 ã\ Îí õîòåë ÷òî-íèáóäü êóïèòü â Ðîññèè= ÿ ñ íèì= êàê è ñ
òûñÿ÷åé äðóãèõ ïðåäïðèíèìàòåëåé= îáñóæäàë âîçìîæíîñòü ñîâìåñòíûõ èíâåñòèöèé\ Îí äåéñòâèòåëüíî õîòåë ïîó÷àñòâîâàòü â ïðèîáðåòåíèè àêöèé Îðëîâñêîãî ñòàëåïðîêàòíîãî çàâîäà= íî â èòîãå äåíåã íå äàë\ Íèêàêîãî ñîâìåñòíîãî
áèçíåñà ó ìåíÿ ñ íèì íå áûëî\ Çàòî
áëàãîäàðÿ åìó ÿ çàíÿëñÿ íåäâèæè-
ìîñòüþ\ Â 1992-1993 ãã\ Ãàéäàìàê
âçÿë â áàíêå êðåäèòû= îáåñïå÷åííûå àêöèÿìè “Ìèíñêà” è
“Öåíòðàëüíîé”= è íå âåðíóë èõ\
- È âñå æå áûë ëè Ãàéäàìàê
àêöèîíåðîì “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà”~ Â 2000 ã\ â áàíêå çàÿâëÿëè=
÷òî îí ÿâëÿåòñÿ àêöèîíåðîì\
- Ñ ïåðâîãî äíÿ çíàêîìñòâà îí
óãîâàðèâàë ìåíÿ ïðîäàòü õîòÿ áû
10% áàíêà= íî ÿ îòêàçûâàëñÿ\ È âîò
â 2000 ã\ Ãàéäàìàê ïîÿâëÿåòñÿ è ãîâîðèò= ÷òî ãîòîâ êóïèòü 25% çà
$200 ìëí\ Â ýòî âðåìÿ áàíê áûë ïîä
óïðàâëåíèåì ÀÐÊÎ\ Åñëè áû îí äåíåã äàë= ÿ áû åìó è áîëüøèé ïàêåò
çà ìåíüøèå äåíüãè ïðîäàë\ Äîêóìåíòîâ= ïðàâäà= ñðàçó íèêàêèõ íå
ïîäïèñàëè= íî åãî íàçíà÷èëè ïðåäñåäàòåëåì ñîâåòà- ó íàñ êàê ðàç
òîãäà [Àëåêñàíäð] Ëèâøèö óõîäèë
ñ ýòîé äîëæíîñòè= íàäî áûëî íà åãî
ìåñòî êîãî-òî ïîäáèðàòü\ Ãàéäàìàê=
âèäèìî= íå âåðèë= ÷òî ÿ íå áóäó
áàíê áàíêðîòèòü\ Ïîðàáîòàë ó íàñ
òðè ìåñÿöà= óâèäåë ñâîèìè ãëàçàìè
âñå çàëîãè è óøåë\ Íó à êîãäà ìû
óçíàëè= ÷òî îí îðóæèåì òîðãóåò= ÿ
ñêàçàë= ÷òî íîãè åãî áîëüøå â áàíêå íå áóäåò\
“ÐÅØÈË ÍÀÂÅÑÒÈ
ÏÎÐZÄÎÊ Â ÑÂÎÅÌ
ÁÎËÜØÎÌ ÕÎÇZÉÑÒÂÅ”
- Êàê âû ïëàíèðóåòå äàëüøå ðàçâèâàòü âàøè áàíêè~ Íå ñîáèðàåòåñü ïðîäàâàòü ÈÌÏÝÊÑÁÀÍÊ~
Âîçìîæíî ëè ñëèÿíèå “Ðîññèéñêîãî êðåäèòà” è ÈÌÏÝÊÑÁÀÍÊà~
òîì= ÷òîáû ñîçäàòü çàâåðøåííóþ
ïðîèçâîäñòâåííóþ öåïî÷êó\ Âîçìîæíîñòü îáúåäèíåíèÿ àêòèâîâ îáñóæäàë ñ âëàäåëüöàìè âñåõ êðóïíåéøèõ êîìáèíàòîâ — ñ Âëàäèìèðîì
Ëèñèíûì= Âèêòîðîì Ðàøíèêîâûì=
Àëåêñååì Ìîðäàøîâûì\ Íî êàæäûé èç íèõ õîòåë ñîõðàíèòü çà
ñîáîé êîíòðîëüíûé ïàêåò â îáúåäèíåííîé êîìïàíèè= ìåíÿ ýòî íå
óñòðàèâàëî\ Äàëüøå âñåõ ÿ ïðîäâèíóëñÿ â ïåðåãîâîðàõ ñ [ñîâëàäåëüöåì “Åâðàçõîëäèíãà”] Àëåêñàíäðîì Àáðàìîâûì\ Â ïðîøëîì ãîäó
ìû ñ íèì äîãîâîðèëèñü îá îáúåäèíåíèè “Åâðàçõîëäèíãà” è Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà= â îáúåäèíåííîé êîìïàíèè ñ äîïëàòîé ÿ ïîëó÷àë áû
äî 40%= ÷òî äåëàëî áû ìåíÿ åå êðóïíåéøèì àêöèîíåðîì (àêöèè
“Åâðàçõîëäèíãà” ðàñïðåäåëåíû
ñðåäè ìåíåäæìåíòà êîìïàíèè)\ Ó
íàñ óæå áûëè ãîòîâû ê ïîäïèñàíèþ äîêóìåíòû= íî òóò ìíå ïîñòóïèëî ïðåäëîæåíèå îò ìîåãî äàâíåãî
äðóãà Âàñèëèÿ Àíèñèìîâà è Àëèøåðà Óñìàíîâà\
- Ñíà÷àëà áûëî çàÿâëåíî= ÷òî âû
áóäåòå îáúåäèíÿòü àêòèâû= à ÷åðåç íåñêîëüêî ìåñÿöåâ âñåõ îãîðîøèëè èçâåñòèåì î òîì= ÷òî çà
$2 ìëðä âû ïðîäàëè èì êîìáèíàò\
- Ìû íà÷àëè ñ îáñóæäåíèÿ âîçìîæíîñòè ñîâìåñòíîãî áèçíåñà=
ñîçäàíèÿ íîâîãî ìåòàëëóðãè÷åñêîãî
ïðîèçâîäñòâà íà áàçå ïðèíàäëåæàùåãî èì êîìáèíàòà “ÍÎÑÒÀ”\ ß õîòåë ñîõðàíèòü çà ñîáîé êîíòðîëüíûé ïàêåò àêöèé Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî
HFC AKJ,C ,B'BYF BDFYBIDBKB
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- Äî ñäåëêè ïî Ìèõàéëîâñêîìó
ÃÎÊó ÿ ðàññìàòðèâàë âàðèàíò ïðîäàæè ÈÌÏÝÊÑÁÀÍÊà= íî òåïåðü
ðåøèë ñäåëàòü ôèíàíñîâûé ñåêòîð
îäíèì èç ïðèîðèòåòíûõ\ Íåäàâíî
ÿ óæå óâåëè÷èë óñòàâíûé êàïèòàë
ÐÊ íà $100 ìëí äî $350 ìëí - âëîæèë äåíüãè= ïîëó÷åííûå îò ïðîäàæè àêöèé “Òóëà÷åðìåòà”\ Íåäàâíî $50 ìëí âëîæèë è â
ÈÌÏÝÊÑÁÀÍÊ\ Ïëàíèðóþ âëîæèòü â áëèæàéøåå âðåìÿ â îáà áàíêà åùå $150 ìëí\ Îáúåäèíÿòü èõ
ÿ íå ïëàíèðóþ= â ýòîì íåò ýêîíîìè÷åñêîãî ñìûñëà= ãîðàçäî óäîáíåå
äåðæàòü äâà áàíêà - îäèí=
ÈÌÏÝÊÑÁÀÍÊ= ñïåöèàëèçèðóþùèéñÿ íà ðîçíè÷íûõ óñëóãàõ= à
ÐÊ ÷åðåç íåñêîëüêî ëåò ñäåëàþ
îäíèì èç ëó÷øèõ èíâåñòáàíêîâ â
ñòðàíå\ Õîòÿ äëÿ ýòîãî ïðèäåòñÿ
ïðèëîæèòü ìíîãî óñèëèé= â ïåðâóþ
î÷åðåäü ýòî êàñàåòñÿ óëó÷øåíèÿ
èìèäæà áàíêà= âåäü âñå ïîìíÿò= ÷òî
“Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” íåñêîëüêî ëåò
ëåæàë\
- À íàñêîëüêî îïðàâäàííî ðàçâèâàòü ÈÌÏÝÊCÁÀÍÊ= âåäü ïîçèöèè èíîñòðàííûõ áàíêîâ óñèëèâàþòñÿ= êîíêóðèðîâàòü ñ íèìè
ñòàíîâèòñÿ âñå ñëîæíåå\
- ×òîáû ïðîòèâîñòîÿòü êîíêóðåíöèè ñî ñòîðîíû èíîñòðàííûõ áàíêîâ= íàäî âçÿòü îäíîãî èç íèõ â
ïàðòíåðû\ Ìû õîòåëè ïðîäàâàòü äî
25% [àêöèé]= íî ïîòåíöèàëüíûå
ïîêóïàòåëè íàñ óáåäèëè= ÷òî ìåíüøå áëîêèðóþùåãî èì íå èíòåðåñíî= è òåïåðü ìû âåäåì ïåðåãîâîðû î ïðîäàæå 25% + 1 àêöèÿ\ Ýòà
ñäåëêà äàñò òîë÷îê ðàçâèòèþ áàíêà=
îñòàíåòñÿ ëèøü ïðàâèëüíî âûñòðîèòü áèçíåñ\
- À ñ êåì âû âåäåòå ïåðåãîâîðû~
- Ñ êðóïíåéøèìè áàíêàìè Ôðàíöèè= Ãåðìàíèè= Íèäåðëàíäîâ\
Âûáîð áóäåò ñäåëàí â áëèæàéøåå
âðåìÿ\
— Ïî÷åìó âû ïðîäàëè Ìèõàéëîâñêèé ÃÎÊ~
— Åùå ñ ñåðåäèíû 90-õ ÿ ñòðåìèëñÿ îáúåäèíèòü ÃÎÊ ñ êàêèìíèáóäü ñòàëåëèòåéíûì êîìáèíà-
ÃÎÊà= à îíè â ýòîì ñëó÷àå íàñòàèâàëè íà ïàðèòåòå â êîìáèíàòå
“ÍÎÑÒÀ” = ïðîèçâîäèòåëå ãîòîâîé
êîíå÷íîé ïðîäóêöèè\ Òàêîé âàðèàíò áûë äëÿ ìåíÿ íåïðèåìëåìûì=
ÿ è ðåøèë ïðîäàòü èì âåñü ïàêåò —
â îòëè÷èå îò Àáðàìîâà îíè ìíå
ñäåëàëè òàêîå ïðåäëîæåíèå\
- Ìîæåò áûòü= ðåøåíèå î âûõîäå èç ìåòàëëóðãè÷åñêîãî áèçíåñà âû ïðèíÿëè ïîä âëèÿíèåì
òîãî= ÷òî â Ðîññèè âñå áîëüøå óæåñòî÷àþòñÿ óñëîâèÿ äëÿ âåäåíèÿ
áèçíåñà~
- Àêöèè Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà ÿ
ïðîäàë= ïîòîìó ÷òî çà íèõ ìíå ïðåäëîæèëè õîðîøèå äåíüãè\ Ïîëèòèêó ÿ êîììåíòèðîâàòü íå õî÷ó\
- À â êàêîé èç ïåðèîäîâ âàì
áûëî êîìôîðòíåå âñåãî ðàáîòàòü — âàì âåäü óäàëîñü ïðî÷óâñòâîâàòü îñîáåííîñòè êàæäîãî
ïåðèîäà òàê íàçûâàåìûõ ðûíî÷íûõ îòíîøåíèé~
- Êîìôîðòíåå âñåãî ÿ ÷óâñòâîâàë ñåáÿ= êîãäà “Ðîññèéñêèé êðåäèò” áûë îäíèì èç êðóïíåéøèõ áàíêîâ â ñòðàíå= êîòîðûé íàõîäèëñÿ
íà ïèêå ðàçâèòèÿ\
- Äî ñäåëêè ïî Ìèõàéëîâñêîìó
ÃÎÊó âû ïðîäàëè Ñòîéëåíñêèé ÃÎÊ\
Ýòî âûãëÿäèò òàê= êàê áóäòî âû ïðîâîäèòå ðàñïðîäàæó èìóùåñòâà\
- ß ðåøèë íàâåñòè ïîðÿäîê â
ñâîåì áîëüøîì õîçÿéñòâå\ Ýíåðãèÿ
óæå íå òà= ÷òîáû çàíèìàòüñÿ âñåì
ñðàçó\ Ó ìåíÿ î÷åíü ìíîãî ðàçíîîáðàçíûõ àêòèâîâ= ìíîãèå èç êîòîðûõ ïîêóïàëèñü åùå â ñàìîì íà÷àëå ïðèâàòèçàöèè\ Îò âñåõ íåïðîôèëüíûõ àêòèâîâ ÿ õî÷ó äî êîíöà
ãîäà èçáàâèòüñÿ= îñòàâëþ òîëüêî
“Ñòîéëåíñêóþ íèâó”= áàíêè= íåäâèæèìîñòü= àïòå÷íûé áèçíåñ= ÂÑÍÊ\
- Âî ñêîëüêî âû îöåíèâàåòå
àêòèâû “Óíèêîðà”~ Ñêîëüêî ìîæåò ïðèíåñòè ïðîäàæà íåïðîôèëüíîãî èìóùåñòâà~
- Äóìàþ= ñåé÷àñ ñòîèìîñòü âñåõ
àêòèâîâ - $1=5-2 ìëðä\ Íåïðîôèëüíûå àêòèâû ñòîÿò îêîëî $500 ìëí\
- Âû ïðîäàëè Ñòîéëåíñêèé ÃÎÊ
çà $510 ìëí= Ìèõàéëîâñêèé ÃÎÊ
è “Òóëà÷åðìåò” - çà $2 ìëðä\ Ðûíîê
çàèíòðèãîâàí - êàê âû ðàñïîðÿäèòåñü âûðó÷åííûìè äåíüãàìè~
- Ïîëîâèíó ñðåäñòâ îò ñäåëêè ñ
àêöèÿìè Ìèõàéëîâñêîãî ÃÎÊà ÿ
ïëàíèðóþ íàïðàâèòü â ñâîè íûíåøíèå ïðîåêòû\ Ïðèîðèòåò äëÿ
ìåíÿ - ñåëüñêîå õîçÿéñòâî\ Â “Ñòîéëåíñêóþ íèâó” óæå âëîæåíî îêîëî
$200 ìëí= ïëàíèðóþ èíâåñòèðîâàòü åùå $200-300 ìëí\ Ñåé÷àñ âåäó
ïåðåãîâîðû î ïðèîáðåòåíèè êîìïàíèè= ñîïîñòàâèìîé ïî ðàçìåðó
ñî “Ñòîéëåíñêîé íèâîé”= íàçâàòü
åå ïîêà íå ìîãó\
- À ïî÷åìó âû äåëàåòå ñòàâêó íà
ñåëüñêîõîçÿéñòâåííûé áèçíåñ~ Ó
âàñ åñòü êàêèå-òî ðàñ÷åòû= ïîêàçûâàþùèå= ÷òî îí ïåðñïåêòèâåí~
-  íûíåøíèõ óñëîâèÿõ òàêèå ðàñ÷åòû ñäåëàòü íåâîçìîæíî= ìíîãîå
áóäåò çàâèñåòü îò ïîçèöèè ïðàâèòåëüñòâà\ À ìíîþ äâèæåò ñâîåãî
ðîäà ñïîðòèâíûé èíòåðåñ= àçàðò ïîñòðîèòü óñïåøíóþ êîìïàíèþ â
òðóäíîì ñåêòîðå\
- À îïðàâäàë ëè àïòå÷íûé áèçíåñ âàøè îæèäàíèÿ~
- Ìû åãî ñîçäàëè ñ íóëÿ= ïîêà
ïðèáûëü åùå íå ïðåâûñèëà âëîæåííûå èíâåñòèöèè= îíà âñÿ ðåèíâåñòèðóåòñÿ= íî ýòî íàïðàâëåíèå ÿ ñ÷èòàþ ïåðñïåêòèâíûì\
Âëîæó òóäà $100-200 ìëí\ Â ïðîøëîì ãîäó ìû óæå êóïèëè êðóïíóþ
àïòå÷íóþ ñåòü â Þæíîì ôåäåðàëüíîì îêðóãå= ñåé÷àñ ïðîâîäèì åå
ðåáðýíäèíã\ Íî ñåé÷àñ ìíîãèì
èíòåðåñåí ýòîò áèçíåñ - ìû çàÿâèëè= ÷òî ãîòîâû ïîêóïàòü àïòå÷íûå ñåòè= òàê íèêòî íå õî÷åò ïðîäàâàòü\
- Êàêèå ïðîåêòû ïî íåäâèæèìîñòè ñîáèðàåòåñü ðåàëèçîâàòü~
- Íà÷àëàñü ðåêîíñòðóêöèÿ “Ìèíñêà”= íà î÷åðåäè - ãîñòèíèöà “Öåíòðàëüíàÿ”\ Èçó÷àþ âîçìîæíîñòü
ïîêóïêè íà âòîðè÷íîì ðûíêå åùå
êàêèõ-íèáóäü ãîñòèíèö\ Íà òåððèòîðèè çàâîäà “Êàó÷óê” ïëîùàäüþ
10 ãà ñêîðî íà÷íåòñÿ ñòðîèòåëüñòâî
áîëüøîãî ìíîãîôóíêöèîíàëüíîãî
êîìïëåêñà - îôèñû= æèëûå äîìà è
äð\ Íåäâèæèìîñòüþ áóäåì çàíèìàòüñÿ è äàëüøå= óæå èùåì ñòàðûå
ïîìåùåíèÿ= çåìëþ äëÿ çàñòðîéêè\
 íåäâèæèìîñòü áóäóò ñàìûå áîëüøèå èíâåñòèöèè - îêîëî $500 ìëí\
- Ó âàñ áûëà áîëüøàÿ òðàíñïîðòíàÿ êîìïàíèÿ “Wåíòð ðóäíûõ
ïåðåâîçîê”\ Åå ïðîäàâàòü íå ñîáèðàåòåñü~ Âî ñêîëüêî âû åå îöåíèâàåòå~
- Äóìàþ= â $250 ìëí\ Ýòà êîìïàíèÿ = êðóïíåéøàÿ íà ðûíêå æåëåçíîäîðîæíûõ ïåðåâîçîê= ó íåå
ïàðê - 4000 âàãîíîâ= áëèæàéøèå
10 ëåò åå íèêòî íå ñìîæåò ïîòåñíèòü\ ß åå ïîêà íà ïðîäàæó íå
âûñòàâëÿþ= íî åñëè ïîêóïàòåëè íàéäóòñÿ - ïðîäàì\
- À âòîðóþ ïîëîâèíó äåíåã çà
Ìèõàéëîâñêèé ÃÎÊ êàê ñîáèðàåòåñü ïîòðàòèòü~ Ïëàíèðóåòå êóïèòü êàêîé-òî êðóïíûé àêòèâ~
Ìîæåò áûòü= çà ïðåäåëàìè Ðîññèè~
- Âñå ïðèîáðåòåíèÿ ÿ áóäó äåëàòü òîëüêî â Ðîññèè= êîòîðóþ õîðîøî çíàþ\ ß õîòåë áû êóïèòü íîâîå êðóïíîå ïðåäïðèÿòèå= íî èíòåðåñíûõ ïðåäëîæåíèé íåò\ Îäíèì
èç âàðèàíòîâ áóäåò ïîêóïêà êîíòðîëüíîãî ïàêåòà àêöèé ÂÑÍÊ\
“Óíèêîðó” ïðèíàäëåæàò 28=5%
àêöèé ýòîé êîìïàíèè= îíà çàíèìàåòñÿ îñâîåíèåì ñëàáî èññëåäîâàííûõ= íî ïåðñïåêòèâíûõ íåôòÿíûõ
çàïàñîâ Âîñòî÷íîé Ñèáèðè= â ÷àñòíîñòè â Êðàñíîÿðñêîì êðàå= êîòîðûé ÿ õîðîøî çíàþ\
- Êàê âû îêàçàëèñü â ýòîì ïðîåêòå~
- Ïîñëå ðàçâàëà “ÞÊÑÈ” (âåñíîé 1998 ã\ âëàäåëüöû “Ñèáíåôòè”
è “ÞÊÎÑà” ïëàíèðîâàëè ñîçäàòü
îáúåäèíåííóþ êîìïàíèþ ñ òàêèì
íàçâàíèåì) àêöèîíåðû “Ñèáíåôòè”
ïðîäàëè ÂÑÍÊ íåêèì íåôòåòðåéäåðàì= ÿ óæå íå ïîìíþ= êàê èõ
çâàëè= òå ïðîäàâàëè 100% àêöèé
ÂÑÍÊ ìíå= à ÿ ðåøèë= ÷òî ñàì ýòîò
ïðîåêò íå ïîòÿíó= è îðãàíèçîâàë
ïðîäàæó êîíòðîëüíîãî ïàêåòà
[ÂÑÍÊ] “ÞÊÎÑó”\ Ñóäüáà ýòîãî
ïðîåêòà ïîêà íåÿñíà\ Åñëè ãîñóäàðñòâî çàÿâèò ñâîþ ïîçèöèþ ïî
ÂÑÍÊ= òî ÿ ìîã áû ïðåòåíäîâàòü
íà âûêóï êîíòðîëüíîãî ïàêåòà= íî
ÿ äîëæåí ïîíèìàòü= ñ êåì âåñòè
ïåðåãîâîðû= - ñ “ÞÊÎÑîì” èëè ñ
ãîñóäàðñòâîì\
- Âû âåäåòå ïåðåãîâîðû ñ
“ÞÊÎÑîì” î ïîêóïêå êîíòðîëüíîãî ïàêåòà àêöèé ÂÑÍÊ~
- Ïîêà íå âåäó\
- ×åì ýòîò ïðîåêò âàñ ïðèâëåêàåò~
- ß õîðîøî çíàþ ýòó êîìïàíèþ=
îíà óñïåøíî ðàçâèâàëàñü= ê íåé
íå áûëî è íåò ïðåòåíçèé ñî ñòîðîíû ãîñîðãàíîâ= ðåãóëèðóþùèõ
âîïðîñû ïðèðîäîïîëüçîâàíèÿ\
Àêöèîíåðû óæå èíâåñòèðîâàëè â
íåå $190 ìëí\ Ñòðàòåãèÿ ðàçâèòèÿ
ÂÑÍÊ íàñ= êàê ìèíîðèòàðíûõ
àêöèîíåðîâ= óñòðàèâàåò\ Åñëè
ÂÑÍÊ áóäåò ïðîäàâàòüñÿ= îäíèõ
ìîèõ äåíåã íà îñâîåíèå ýòîãî ïðîåêòà íå õâàòèò= íàäî áóäåò ïðèâëåêàòü äîïîëíèòåëüíûå ñðåäñòâà\
- À åñëè ïîêóïêà ÂÑÍÊ íå ñîñòîèòñÿ~
- Áóäó ïîðòôåëüíûì èíâåñòîðîì\
ß õîðîøî çíàþ èíâåñòèöèîííûé áèçíåñ\ Ìíå óæå ïðèíàäëåæèò îêîëî
1% àêöèé “Ãàçïðîìà”= “ËÓÊÎÉËà”=
äðóãèõ êîìïàíèé\ Áóäó è äàëüøå
ïîêóïàòü ëèêâèäíûå áóìàãè ðîññèéñêèõ êîìïàíèé\
- Âû âåðíóëèñü â Ãðóçèþ íåäàâíî\ À áèçíåñîì òàì äàâíî çàíèìàåòåñü~
- Â Ãðóçèè ÿ óæå îêîëî 10 ëåò
çàíèìàþñü áèçíåñîì\ Àêòèâû
î÷åíü ðàçíîîáðàçíûå\ Ìíå ïðèíàäëåæèò îäíà èç êðóïíåéøèõ ïèùåâûõ êîìïàíèé - “×àéêà”= äåëàåò
ìîðîæåíîå= ïåëüìåíè= ïå÷åíüå\
Åñòü áàíê “Êàðòó”\ Ñàìàÿ êðóïíàÿ
ñòðîèòåëüíàÿ êîìïàíèÿ â Ãðóçèè ñòðîèò è îôèñû= è æèëüå\ Ñåëüñêîõîçÿéñòâåííàÿ êîìïàíèÿ= âëàäååò
600 ãà çåìëè\ Åñòü ó ìåíÿ è ñàìûé
áîëüøîé â Ãðóçèè ïîãðåá= âðåçàííûé â ãîðó\ Â íåì ñòîÿò îãðîìíûå
öèñòåðíû ñ âèíîì\ Ìû çàñàäèëè
áîëüøå 300 ãà âèíîãðàäíèêîâ= äóìàëè ðàçâèâàòüñÿ\ Íî òåïåðü âñå
ýòî ïðîäàþ\ Ïîêóïàòåëè åñòü óæå
íà âñå\ Îñòàâëþ òîëüêî áàíê\
- Ïî÷åìó âû ðåøèëè ïðîäàòü
ãðóçèíñêèé áèçíåñ~
- Ìíå ñêîðî 50= è íàäî ñêîíöåíòðèðîâàòüñÿ íà ãëàâíîì= ñèë íåò
çàíèìàòüñÿ âñåì\ Åäèíñòâåííûé
ïðîåêò= êîòîðûé ÿ õî÷ó çàâåðøèòü= - ýòî ñîçäàíèå ãîðíîëûæíîãî êîìïëåêñà “Áàêóðèàíè-2”\
Íåñêîëüêî ëåò íàçàä ÿ êóïèë áîëüøîé ó÷àñòîê çåìëè íà îäíîì èç
ëó÷øèõ ãîðíûõ ìàññèâîâ Åâðîïû\
Êàíàäñêèå è àâñòðèéñêèå êîìïàíèè óæå ïîäãîòîâèëè ãåíïëàí ðàçâèòèÿ êóðîðòíîãî êîìïëåêñà= îí
áóäåò âêëþ÷àòü â ñåáÿ ëûæíûå òðàññû è ðàçâëåêàòåëüíûé öåíòð\ Â
ýòîì ãîäó ÿ íà÷íó ôèíàíñèðîâàíèå ñòðîèòåëüñòâà ïåðâîãî ýòàïà
ïðîåêòà - ãîíäîëüíîé êàíàòíîé äîðîãè= â ñëåäóþùåì ãîäó âñÿ
èíôðàñòðóêòóðà äîëæíà áûòü ãîòîâà\ Íî ÿ ñàì íå õî÷ó çàíèìàòüñÿ
ýòèì ïðîåêòîì\ Â îñíîâíîì òóäà
áóäóò åçäèòü ðîññèéñêèå òóðèñòû\
ß õî÷ó= ÷òîáû ðîññèéñêèå òóðîïåðàòîðû çàíèìàëèñü ñòðîèòåëüñòâîì ãîñòèíèö= ãîòîâ ïåðåäàòü
èì áåçâîçìåçäíî çåìëþ ïîä ñòðîèòåëüñòâî= ïðåäîñòàâèòü èì ëüãîòíîå ôèíàíñèðîâàíèå\
- Âàø ïåðååçä â Ãðóçèþ ñîâïàë
ñ ñåðüåçíûìè ïîëèòè÷åñêèìè
èçìåíåíèÿìè â ñòðàíå\ Êàê âû èõ
îöåíèâàåòå~
- Ê âëàñòè ïðèøëè ìîëîäûå
ñèëû= íî ÿ íè çà= íè ïðîòèâ íèõ ýòî âñå= ÷òî ÿ ìîãó ñêàçàòü\ ß âîîáùå î÷åíü ñîæàëåþ= ÷òî ðîññèéñêî-ãðóçèíñêèå îòíîøåíèÿ çàøëè
â òàêîå ðóñëî\
- Íàñêîëüêî ïóáëè÷íûé îáðàç
æèçíè âû âåäåòå â Ãðóçèè= êàê ê
âàì îòíîñÿòñÿ ìåñòíûå ïîëèòèêè=
áèçíåñìåíû~
- ß íè ñ êåì èç íèõ íå êîíòàêòèðóþ= æèâó î÷åíü îáîñîáëåííî=
îáùàþñü òîëüêî ñ ðîäñòâåííèêàìè=
áëèçêèìè äðóçüÿìè\ Ó ìåíÿ íåò ïîëèòè÷åñêèõ àìáèöèé= ìíå ïðîñòî
õî÷åòñÿ ñïîêîéíî æèòü ñî ñâîåé
ñåìüåé= ñâîå ñåëî ×îðâèëà ïî äåëàì áèçíåñà ÿ ïîêèäàþ ëèøü èíîãäà\
- Åñëè âñå ýòî òàê= ïî÷åìó âû
íå ïîäàâàëè â ñóä èñê î çàùèòå
÷åñòè è äîñòîèíñòâà~
- Ïîòîìó ÷òî ÿ íèêîãäà è íå òåðÿë ÷åñòü è äîñòîèíñòâî= æèë ïî
ñîâåñòè= à î âîññòàíîâëåíèè ýòèõ
öåííîñòåé ïóñêàé çàäóìàþòñÿ òå=
êòî ïèñàë îáî ìíå íåïðàâäó\
Áåñåäó âåëà ÌÀÐÈZ ÐÎÆÊÎÂÀ
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23
zogierTi rCeva sadResaswaulo
magidis gaSlis Sesaxeb
TiToeuli diasaxlisi Taviseburad awyobs dResaswaulo magidas. erTs metad moswons feradi
sufra, meores ujredebiani an daCiTuli, xolo mesame upiratesobas
aniWebs TeTr sufras.
magram, miuxedavad Cveni gemovnebisa, sadResaswaulo magidas yvelaze metad uxdeba TeTri, qaTqaTa,
gaxamebuli sufra.
mizanSewonilia, sufris qveS magidas gadavafaroT sqeli qsovili,
romelic mas daicavs dazianebisagan da Tan WurWeli ar ixmaurebs.
aqve unda avRniSnoT, rom sadResaswaulo TeTr sufraze celofnis gadafareba ar aris mizanSewonili.
ra Tqma unda, sadResaswaulo
sufraze unda gamovitanoT saukeTeso WurWeli. sasurvelia sufris gawyoba mTliani serviziT erTsaxovani moyvanilobis da
feris WurWliT. sadResaswaulo
sufraze pirveli Tavi saWmeli
ZiriTadad ar miitaneba, amitom
Rrma TefSebis dawyoba ar aris
saWiro. magidaze vawyobT or TefSs, ZiriTadi cxeli saWmelebisaT-
vis da zemodan patara TefSs
sauzmisaTvis.
Tu magidis gaSla gvsurs yvela
wesebis dacviT, rogorc TefSebis
raodenoba, aseve dana-Cangali da
Wiqebi unda daiwyos ramdenime
saxis, imis mixedviT, ramdeni Tavi
saWmeli da sasmelia, magram ufro
moxerxebulia SemovifargloT
ori saxis TefSiT.
Semdeg valagebT dana-Cangals;
danas vdebT TefSis marjvena mxares, galesili piri TefSisaken;
Cangals vdebT marcxniv, amoburculi mxare qveviT. TefSis win
vdebT patara danas (xilisaTvis),
Cangals tortisa da sxva namcxvrisaTvis, Cais kovzs nayinisa da
sxva CarozisaTvis.
Wiqebs vawyobT TefSis win, odnav marjvniv, rom asaRebad moxerxebuli iyos; sasurvelia Wiqebi
iyos erTi saxis, gansxvavebuli
mxolod zomiT.
bolo dros xmarebaSia qaRaldis xelsaxocebi, magram sadResaswaulo magidaze mizanSewonilia
qsovilis xelsaxocebi, romlebic
SeiZleba davdoT TefSze zevidan,
gasufTavebuli, garecxili
frinveli qvabSi movaTavsoT,
davasxaT wyali, davdgaT cecxlze da naxevrad movxarSoT.
mere amoviRoT wvenidan, davdoT
Tunuqis furcelze da SevdgaT
airRumelSi Sesawvavad.
bulions movxadoT cximi da
masSi movSuSoT xorcsakep manqanaSi gatarebuli xaxvi. SuSvis
dros davamatoT bulionidan moxdili cximi da Tan vurioT, rom
ar daiwvas. roca odnav vardisfers
miiRebs, CavasxaT bulionSi.
nigozi xorcsakep manqanaSi
orjer gavataroT.
yviTeli yvavili (zafrana) kargad davnayoT marilTan erTad,
CavanayoT niori, avurioT nigozSi
da xeliT vsrisoT, sanam sakmao
raodenobis zeTs ar gamovxdiT.
calke davnayoT nigozTan erTad
ucxo suneli, dariCini, mixaki, qinZis
marcvlebi, wiwaka.
yvelaferi es gavxsnaT Tbil
bulionSi, kargad movurioT,
gavataroT sacerSi da davdgaT
nel cecxlze mosaxarSad.
ori kvercxis guli gavxsnaT
erT sufris kovz ZmarSi da roca
sacivi TiTqmis mzad iqneba, nela
CavasxaT da Tan sul vurioT, rom
ar agveWras. aduRebamde CavawyoT
Sig naWrebad daWrili Semwvari
indauri an qaTami da wamoduRebisTanave gadmovdgaT cecxlidan.
roca mzad iqneba, sacivi amoviRoT
langarze da sufraze mitanis win
movasxaT nigvzidan gamoxdili
zeTi.
gverdiT da mivceT sxvadasxva
forma. magidaze calke SeiZleba
mivitanoT qaRaldis xelsaxocebic, specialuri CasalageblebiT.
sufris gasalamazeblad SeiZleba davdgaT ramdenime larnaki
yvavilebiT. diasaxlisTan axlos
saWiroa idges patara magida, sadac moTavsdeba sxvadasxva WurWeli da sufrisaTvis saWiro sagnebi.
civi saWmeli adreve lagdeba
magidaze. centralur adgilebSi
idgmeba ojaxis safirmo saWmelebi,
iseTnairad, rom sufris yvela
wevrma advilad dainaxos da
miwvdes gadmosaRebad. aqve idgmeba
sxvadasxva saxis sawebelebi- marili, mdogvi da sxva.
puri iWreba Txel, patara naWrebad da miitaneba specialuri
sapureTi an Cveulebrivi TefSebiT.
Tu stumrad gewvevaT 5-6 kaci,
cxeli saWmeli idgmeba magidaze
didi langariT, xolo Tu sufra
mravalricxovania, saWiroa Camotareba. magidis TiToeul wevrTan
mitana xdeba marcxena mxridan
da stumari langaridan Tavad
iRebs saWmels sasurveli raodenobiT.
mWadi da Romi magidaze miitaneba cxlad. mWadi sasurvelia patar-patara gamocxves, rom daWra
ar dasWirdes. mWadebi lagdeba
indauris an
qaTmis sacivi
indauri an qaTami
nigozi _ 500-500grami
xaxvi _ 4-5 Tavi
zafrana _ 2 Cais kovzi
ucxo suneli _ 4C/k
xmeli qinZi _ 2 C/k
mixaki _ 3-4 cali
dariCini _ 1 Cais kovzi
niori _ 4 kbili
Zmari _ 1 sufris kovzi
naxarSi wveni _ 10 Cais Wiqa
marili, wiwaka _ gemovnebiT.
rbili xorci _ 1 kilogrami
kombosto _ 1 kilogrami
brinji _ 0,5Cais Wiqa
pamidori _ 1 kilogrami
xaxvi _ 3-4 Tavi
kvercxi _ 2 cali
mwvanili, pilpili,
marili _ gemovnebiT
cxvris xorci _ 1kg
xaxvi _ 5 Tavi,
brinji _ 1 Cais Wiqa,
qinZi, niori, wiwaka,
tyemali (kvawaraxi, maSarabi),
pilpili, marili _ gemovnebiT.
lobio movxarSoT Cveulebrivi wesiT, mxolod ise, rom
Zalian ar CaiSalos. gadavwuroT naxarSi, davnayoT nigozi, niori, xmeli suneli, qinZis Tesli, marili, wiwaka, gavxsnaT ZmarSi
da avurioT moxarSul lobioSi ise, rom lobios marcvlebi ar
daiWylitos. gadavitanoT langarze da zevidan movayaroT rgolebad daWrili xaxvi, wvrilad daWrili qinZi da oxraxuSi.
purTan erTad, Romi miitaneba
patara sauzmis TefSebiT.
sasmelis boTlebi, garda Sampanurisa, sufraze mitanis win gaixsneba.
kargad garecxili xili specialuri larnakebiT Caidgmeba. Tu
sufra mravalricxovania, xili
ganawildeba ramdenime adgilas.
tkbileulis mitanis win saWiroa sufridan aviRoT daclili
WurWeli, saweblebi da sxva. aseve
unda mosufTavdes magidis safari.
naxmari TefSebis, dana-Canglis
da sxva WurWlis Secvla saWiroa
moxdes swrafad da xmauris
gareSe.
xinkali
Roris, an cxvris xorcis rbili naWrebi davWraT da
xaxvTan erTad xorcsakep manqanaSi gavataroT. avurioT Sig
danayili pilpili, marili, oxraxuSi, qinZi, qondari, imdeni
Tbili wyali, ramdensac Seiwovs xorci (daaxloebiT erTi
Cais Wiqa).
movziloT magari comi odnav mariliani naxevari litri
wyliTa da kvercxiT. kargad gavabrtyeloT, gamovWraT
specialuri xis saWrisiT da kidev gavabrtyeloT. TiToeul
comze movaTavsoT erTi sufris kovzi momzadebuli xorci,
napirebi SemovukecoT, movgrixoT da kuWi davtkepnoT ise,
rom moxarSvis dros ar gaixsnas. ase momzadebuli xinklebi
CavyaroT marilian mduRare wyalSi da vxarSoT; qvabi
xangamoSvebiT vatrialoT, rom xinkali Zirze ar miekras.
roca yvela xinkali wylis zeviT amotivtivdeba, kidev
xuTi wuTi vaduRoT da amovalagoT qafqiriT.
sufraze xinkalTan erTad mivitanoT danayili pilpili.
Roris mwvadi
cxvris
xorcis xarSo
msuqani cxvris xorci davWraT, gavrecxoT, CavyaroT qvabSi,
davamatoT dakepili xaxvi, davdgaT cecxlze da movSuSoT. davasxaT
mduRare wyali, imdeni, rom xorci kargad daifaros. CavyaroT
darCeuli da kargad garecxili brinji. SevazavoT danayili
nivriT, qinZiT, wiwakiT da mariliT. davumatoT gamzadebuli
tyemlis sawebeli, kvawaxari an maSarabi, pilpili da vxarSoT ,
sanam xorci mzad ar iqneba.
rubrikis premiera
Roris an cxvris
xorci 1 kg,
xaxvi_5 Tavi,
marili_gemovnebiT,
mwvanili, pilpili,
kvercxi_1 cali.
xorcis tolma
xorcis rbili naweri xaxvTan erTad orjer gavataroT
xorcsakep manqanaSi, davamatoT marili, pilpili, umi brinji,
wvrilad daWrili sxvadasxva mwvanili, gaTqvefili kvercxi
da erTad kargad avziloT.
kombostos Tavi saTiTao foTlebad davarCioT, movaWraT
magari nawilebi, CavdoT aduRebul wyalSi da 3-5 wuTis ganmavlobaSi gavTuTqoT. Semdeg TiToeul Kombostos foTolSi
SevaxvioT gamzadebuli xorcis gufTebi, CavalagoT qvabSi, davasxaT Zvlebisgan miRebuli bulioni an cota wyali, davamatoT
xorcsakep manqanaSi gatarebuli pamidori (an erTi Wiqa tomati)
da davdgaT mosaxarSad. roca mzad iqneba, langarze amoviRoT
da zed Tavisi naxarSi wveni gadavasxaT.
Tqveni
Semwvari goWi
msuqani Roris xorci (umjobesia zurgis neknebiani mxare,
barklis naWeri da sxva) davWraT
saSualo zomis naWrebad, movayaroT marili da SevdgaT macivarSi ramodenime saaTiT. Semdeg
wamovagoT Samfurze da SevwvaT
nakverCxalze; Samfuri sul vatrialoT. roca mwvadi mzad iqneba,
movayaroT mrgvlad daWrili xaxvi da SemovuwyoT oxraxuSis
foTlebi. sufraze mwvadTan erTad, calke, mivitanoT broweulis
an tyemlis sawebeli.
goWi kargad gavasufTavoT, gavrecxoT, wavusvaT marili muclis
RruSi da garedan. Zalian wmindad davnayoT winaswar cxel wyalSi dambali wiwaka, niori, qinZi, kama, oxraxuSi, rehani. es yvelaferi
gavxsnaT nigvzidan gamoxdil zeTSi da goWs wavusvaT rogorc
SigniT, aseve gareTac. am naerTis magier, Sewvis dros SeiZleba
xangamoSvebiT wavusvaT erbo an wyali. goWi SeiZleba Seiwvas
rogorc RumelSi, aseve nakverCxalze, Samfurze wamocmuli.
lobio nigvziT
lobio _ 1 kilogrami
qinZis Tesli _ 2 Cais kovzi
xaxvi _ 2 Tavi
oxraxuSi, qinZi _ 4-4 Ziri
nigozi _ 2 Cais Wiqa
xmeli suneli _ 2 Cais kovzi
Zmari _ 0,5 Cais Wiqa
marili, niori,
wiwaka _ gemovnebiT
vhfdfk
f[fk otkc!
24
cxeli agvistos dila Tendeboda CineTis dedaqalaqSi, rodesac safrangeTis aviaxazebis
TviTmfrinavi aTsaaTiani frenis
Semdeg naxevari saaTis dagvianebiT pekinis aeroportSi daeSva.
vidre evropelebma Cveuli samadlobeli taSi Semokres da dinjad qamrebis Sexsnis brZanebas
elodnen, Cinelebi ukve (CemTvis
samSoblodan cnobili sulswrafobiT) „abargebuliyvnen“, anu
TviTfrinavis xelbargis ganyofilebidan CanTebic gadmoeRoT,
mobiluri telefonebic CaerToT
da mujlugunebis rtymeviT jer
kidev moZraobaSi myofi manqanis
karisaken ikafavdnen gzas. „bevrni
arian da amgvari meTodebiT cxovroben“ - amixsna Semdgom CineTSi mcxovrebma Cvenma Tanamemamulem, rodesac taqsis gaCerebisas
Cemi gancvifrebuli saxe SeniSna. „bavSvobidan aswavlian, rom
brZolaa cxovreba, yovel nabijze unda ibrZolo, moaswro, gza
gaikafo“, xoda, esenic ibrZvian skolaSi, saxlSi, TviTfrinavSi,
quCaSi, bazarSi... arada, dameTanxmebiT, didi vaJkacoba unda,^ebrZolo miliard an Tundac mxolod Sens qalaqSi Tu ubanSi
mcxovreb ramodenime milion kacs.
am brZolaSi iyvnen Cveni umcrosi (raRa dros sabWoTa kavSiria da axla, albaT, ukve ufrosi) „Zmebi“, rodesac TviTfrinavi SeCerda, kari gaiRo da saloni saswauli siswrafiT dacarielda – CineTis moqalaqeebisaTvis aTi, xolo sxva qveynebis SvilebisaTvis sami sapasporto Semowmebis punqti eloda CamosulT. kargia, sakuTar
xalxs did pativs scemen-meTqi,
vifiqre da CvenTvis gamoyofil
grZel rigSi Cavdeqi. Tanac guli damwyda, vercerT qveyanaSi
ver aRmovCndi „mokle rigSi“.
evropis, amerikis da ager aziis
aeroportebSic im „sxva erovnebaTa“ Soris viyavi, saguldagulo
sapasporto Semowmebas rom saWiroeben da dausrulebel rigSi
rom icdian. sasaciloa, magram saqarTveloSic „grZel rigianebi“
isev Cven, qarTvelebi varT xolme...
ucxoeTis civ qveynebSi mcxovrebi qarTvelebi mzis, siTbos siyvaruliT da sicxis amtanobiT
viwonebT Tavs maSin, rodesac evropis qveynebSi sicxes miuCveveli mosaxleoba maRali temperaturis gamo iRupeba. amas nebismieri qarTveli daikvexnis-Tqo,
megona, visac zafxulis Tveebi
Cvens dedaqalaqSi gautarebia. magram is, rac aeroportidan gamosvlisas qalaqSi trialebs,
sicxed veRar iwodeba, amas albaT raime Cinuri sityva Tu aRwers, Torem qarTuli? albaT
vera. es sicxea pekinis mosaxle-
oba mxolod Ramis samossa da
sacvlebSi rom gamohyavs quCebSi, fexiT mosiaruleT maisurs
rom akecinebs mkerdamde, asobiT
velosipediT mgzavrs sagzao moZraobis ganurCevlad sxvadasxva
mimarTulebiT dabneulebs rom
daatarebs da daRlilebs iqve
gzis piras mxar-TeZoze wamowolils rom aZinebs.
Tumca vidre daiZinebdnen Wamis droa CineTSi... Wama ki,
mogexsenebaT, yvelaze wminda da
mTavari ritualia mTels 9,6
milion kvadratuli kilometris farTobze (aki mTeli msoflio mofenilia Cinuri restornebiT, Tumca aqve getyviT, rom
aqaur saWmels CvenTvis cnobil
Cinur samzareulosTan araferi
aqvs saerTo). „gaxdeba Tu ara
12:00 saaTi vercerTs veRar vpoulob, saWmelad garbian, mere ki
sZinavT zogs sad da zogs sad“
– miyveba Tavis momuSaveebze CineTis erT patara provinciaSi
moRvawe qarTveli-biznesmeni.
„taqsSi rom Cajde da 12:00
saaTi gaxdes adgilzeve Camogsvams – mSia axla meo“ - mxars
ubamdnen siciliT sxvebic. Znelad
Tu i povi restoranSi adgils
dRis Tormetsa Tu saRamos eqvs
saaTze, anu im dros nebismieri
fenis warmomadgeneli Cineli nebismier gadaudebel saqmes gadadebs da msoflios nebismier qveyanaSi cnobil kerZebs Seeqceva.
Tuki bedma gagiRimaT da restoranSi adgili gamonaxeT, saTnod
mogemsaxurebian da „Tavzec dagadgebian“ momsaxure gogo-biWebi. „Tavze dagadgebiano“? – gagikvirdebaT albaT. diax, isini
mTeli Wamis ganmavlobaSi didi
pativiT TvalebSi Semogcqerian,
raTa egreve daakmayofilon Tqveni
nebismieri survili.
didi qalaqis daTvalierebis
Semdeg piradad Cemi survili
maTi samzareulos gasinjva iyo.
didxans vcdilobdiT mSierni Cinuri joxebiT saWmlis piramde
mitanas (Tanac Suris TvaliT
vuyurebdiT gverdze magidasTan
msxdom Cinelebs brinjis TiToeul marcals rom krefdnen TefSidan), Semdeg moTminebis fiala
agvevso da Canglebi moviTxoveT. amas ki, rogorc mosalodneli iyo, iqve mdgomi oficiantebis xiTxiTi da gaxaliseba mohyva. gavnawyendi, Semdeg berlinis
erT kavkasiur restoranSi msxdomi germaneli wyvili gamaxsenda,
xinkals dana-CangliT rom miirTmevda da mec gameRima...
Wamaze mogaxsenebT da modiT
pekinis rusul ubanSi „iabalou“ze gadavinacvloT, sadac Cinur
samzareulos (albaT joxebsac)
Tu „zedmet yuradRebas“ gamoqceul da rusul restorans Se-
nino xabelaSvilis reportaJi
zez.bfyb xbytsblfy
5
milioni
iq, sadac
sadac milioni
iq,
kaci erT
erT koncerts
koncerts eswreba
eswreba
kaci
kedlebul yofili sabWoTa kavSiris qveynebis warmomadgenlebs
SexvdebiT. calke darbazSi gancalkevebuli, aq TxuTmeti qarTveli CineTis qarTuli saTvistomos daarsebas aRniSnavda. sul
ramodenime Tvis winaT CineTis
dedaqalaqSi saqarTvelos saelCo gaixsna (Cvens samSoblos dResdReobiT miliardian qveyanaSi
ori kaci warmoadgens da saelCosa Tu sakonsulos muSakTa
yvela saqmianobas iTavsebs). gawkrialebul oTxsarTulian SenobaSi Sekrebili stumrebi saelCos sakuTrebaSi myof xuT skams
iyofdnen. didi CineTis sxvadasxva kuTxeebidan saTvistomos dasaarseblad Camosul qarTvelebs
elCi miesalma, skamebis ukmarisobaze bodiSi mouxada (dasZina,
rom avejs xval moitandnen aucileblad) da axlad daarsebuli warmomadgenlobis gegmebs, CineTis provinciebsa da saqarTvelos sxvadasxva kuTxeebis damegobrebaze esaubreboda. saTvistomos arsebobis aucilebloba
gamoikveTa. Tavmjdomaris kandidatura dasaxelda, iqve erTxmad
airCa da Sekrebilebma zemoT xsenebul rusul restoran „elefantSi“ gadavinacvleT, sadac am
TariRis aRsaniSnavad daqiravebuli darbazi, rusuli kerZebi
da Cineli oficiantebi elodnen stumrebs.
sasiamovno saRamo Sesdga, sadRegrZeloebi RviniTa da iqve, CineTis erT-erT provinciaSi Camosxmuli qarTuli koniakiT ismeoda. studentebi, qarTul-Cinuri ojaxebi, biznesmenebi Tu
saelCos warmomadgenlebi Tavi-
anT „Cinur gamocdilebas“ uziarebdnen erTmaneTs. „Citebi araa
am qveyanaSi, Citebi“ – Tavis gulistkivils warmosTqvamda erTi. „Tu gindaT ganaxebT saidan
midis saqoneli lilos bazrobaze“ – gvTavazobda meore. „qarTveli gagiJebula da sagiJeTSi
waiyvanes, saqarTveloSi unda gadavafrinoT“ – Cioda elCi. dasasruls erTi-ori qarTuli simRerac SeukveTes, savizito baraTebic gacvales, saTvistomos
sxvadasxva warmomadgenlebic daasaxeles da daiSalnen qarTvelebi, did CineTSi momavali Sexvedris imediT.
meore dilis 8 saaTze saelCos mZRoli siao iao ukve CineTis cnobili kedlisaken miaqanebda manqanas. sakmaod mxiaruli xalxi aRmoCnda Cemi Tanamgzavrebi. siao Cinurad batonsac da qalbatonsac niSnavso,
gvixsnida Cveni qarTveli Tanamgzavris Cineli meuRle, romelic mZRolTan urTierTobaSi
gvexmareboda. Cinur kedels bevri misadgomi aqvso, fexiT gnebavT asvla Tu sabagiro gziTo
- gvekiTxeboda. yvelas 6.350 kmis sigrZis, msoflioSi yvelaze
didi nageboba warmogvidga Tvalwin da erTxmad sabagiro gzaze
davTanxmdiT. Cemi Tanamgzavrebi
TavianTi „Cinuri TavgadasavlebiTa“ da qveynis ambebiT ar mawyendnen gzaSi. erT istorias
Tqvenc giambobT, Tavad gansajeT
simarTlea igi Tu ara, gamogitydebiT, amis dadgena gamiWirda.
„es ambavi didi xnis winaT
moxda. CineTis mTavrobas beRurebi „qveynis mtrebad“ Seuracxia, gadauwyvetia rom maT ziani
moaqvT bunebisaTvis, maTi gadaSeneba ganuzraxia da am saqmeSi
mTeli CineTis mosaxleoba Caubia. beRura didxans ver dafrinavs, igi dro da dro unda Camojdes sadme, Torem mokvdeba“ –
ganagrZobda Txrobas Tanamgzavri. „mTeli CineTis mosaxleoba
saxlebidan gamosula, 2 saaTis
ganmavlobaSi jam-WurWlebiT xmauri autexavT, raTa beRurebi SiSiT versad Camomjdariyvnen... ase
amowyvites CineTSi beRurebi“.
saxeze etyoba cota undobloba
Semetyo. „damijereT, es yvelaferi saxelmwifo doneze xdeboda. amis gamo qveyanaSi uamravi mweri momravlda. mixvdnen, rom
didi Secdoma Caidines da Semdeg
beRurebi kanadidan Seisyides“.
erT saaTiani gza Zalzed gagveWima. rogorc Cans im SabaT
dRes ramodenime milionma mosaxlem sakuTari qveynis siamayis, didi kedlis monaxuleba moisurva, ris gamoc sagzao moZraoba ramodenime saaTiT SeCerda.
im dRes CineTis kedelze ver
movxvdiT...
qalaqi, romelSic
ar aris mze
pekini – qalaqi, romelic „yovelTvis ara, magram xSirad“ CineTis dedaqalaqi iyo, sididiT
Sanhais Semdeg meorea qveyanaSi.
turistisaTvis qalaqSi gadaadgilebis saukeTeso saSualeba
taqsia, romlis Rirebulebac evropuli qveynebis saqalaqo mgzavrobis tolfasia. mTavaria mxolod mZRols gaagebinoT sad
gsurT wasvla, an Sesabamis mosaxvevSi Sesabamisi xeliT mianiSnoT Sexveva.
pekinelebis saamayo adgili
(Tumca ki taqsis mZRolebisaTvis mainc rTulad asaxsneli) –
„akrZaluli qalaqia“. 723.633
kvadratuli metris nageboba, sididiT msoflios yvela samefo
sasaxles aRemateba. 500 wlis
ganmavlobaSi „akrZaluli qalaqi“ Cinel kaizerTa dinastiis
rezidencias warmoadgenda. misi
yvela 9.999 oTaxi xisa da qvisagan aris naSenebi da sistemurad ganlagebuli. „akrZaluli
qalaqi“, romlis teritoriazec
Cveulebriv mokvdavs fexis dadgmis ufleba ar hqonda (aqedanve
modis misi saxelic), 52 metris
siRrmis TxriliTa da 10 metris simaRlis galavniTaa garSemortymuli.
1911 wels revoluciis Semdeg miuxedavad qingTa dinastiis ukanaskneli kaizeris damxobisa, mas da mis ojaxs sasaxleSi darCenis neba darTes. respublikelTa jarebma ki, kaizeris
STamomavlebi 1924 wels sabolood gandevnes qalaqidan da
igi yvelasaTvis misawvdom muzeumad aqcies. yovelTvis xalxmravlobaa am odesRac wynar
samflobeloSi, fotoaparatebiT
momarjvebulebs TiTqos 500
wlis saidumloebis amoxsna
surT. qalaqi-muzeumi sigrZeSi
960, xolo siganeSi 750 metria,
ase rom, visac aqaurobis monaxuleba gsurT, girCevT sportuli fexsacmliT mobrZandeT.
Tuki zemoTTqmuli farTobis
gadalaxvas SesZlebT, „akrZaluli qalaqis“ samxreTiT pekinis
centrs - zeciuri mSvidobis anu
tiananmenis, msoflios yvelaze
did (40 heqtarian) moedans miadgebiT. xumroba xom ar aris, mravali istoriul TariRTa mematiane moedani milion kacs itevs!
dResdReobiT moedani 1989 wlis
4 ivnisis mogonebad rCeba mosaxleobaSi, im sisxliani dRisa,
rodesac mSvidobian demonstraciasa da demokratiis lozungebs aTasobiT studenti Seewira.
tiananmenis moednis SuagulSi saxalxo gmirTaTvis miZRvnili Zeglia. maT mosagoneblad,
25
agebuli erTaderTi sasazRvro
xazia, SeuiaraRebeli TvaliT rom
dainaxav Turme kosmosidan. Cvens
w.aR.me-5 saukuneSi dawyebuli
nagebobis mSenebloba me-16 saukuneSi dasrulda mxolod. dResdReobiT SemorCenili nawilebi
rom gadaabaT, niu-iorkidan losanjelesamde gastans, misi qvebisagan xuTi metris simaRlisa
da erTi metri siRrmis aSenebuli galavani ki TviT dedamiwis
garSemowirulobaze meti iqneboda. rac ufro maRla midixar,
miT ufro rTuldeba gza, cicabo aRmarTidan uceb saxifaTo
daRmarTad iqceva kedeli, mTebs
efareba da isev Cndeba, warmoudgenel sigrZeze iWimeba da sadRac SoreTSi ikargeba.
rom mTlad ar gadaiRaloT
TiToeul galavanTan gasarTobi
saSualebebi, ukeT rom vTqvaT,
`fulis maxeebi“ geliT. gnebavT
aqlemTan gadagiReben suraTs, gnebavT Cinur nacionalur tanisamoss Cagacmeven, Tqvens saxels
amotvifraven medalionze an sulac sertifikats mogcemen, imis
dasturad, rom CineTis did kedelze iyaviT (egeb am ukanasknelis gamo mainc ar gamiwyreT, am
gasarTobebs „fulis maxe“ rom
vuwode). Tuki „evropuli garegnobisa“ brZandebiT da Tmis Ria
feric giwyobT xels, Tavadac
„fotodekoraciad“ iqceviT da
droulad Tu ar daaRwieT Tavi
(an Cinelma Tanamgzavrma Tu ar
gixsnaT) naxevar dRes Rimilsa
da pozirebaSi gaatarebT.
uyureb monRolebisagan Tavis
dasacavad, xalxis dasasaqmeblad
Tu raime sxva mizniT agebul
kedels, gaoceba (amave dros SiSi) da aRtaceba gi pyrobs, Tundac mxolod imaze fiqris gamo,
rom yovelive es adamianis xeliTaa Sewmnili. qalaqidan 7080 kilometriT moSorebuli kedlidan ulamazesi buneba geSleba win, aqedan mzec ki sCans...
***
saelCoSi Sepirebuli aveji
moitanes, Tqvenma amdeni xnis
megzurma Cinuri joxebis gamoyenebac viswavle da taqsis mZRolisaTvis saxlis gzis miniSnebac. es yvelaferi ki imas niSnavs, rom nel-nela CineTis datovebis droc axlovdeba, qveynisa, romelic daujereblad swrafi ganviTarebis fazaSia. „eseni
brZoliT ara, eseni sxva gziT
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fye 888 hbf
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dai pyroben msoflioso“ – amboben CineTSi mcxovrebi sxva eris
Svilebi.
dabinZurebul quCebs, samanqano gzis gayolebaze saWmlis
momzadebel mcxovreblebs, SiSveli xeliT nagvis gadamrCev muSakebs, daxeuli tansacmliT fexSiSvelad mosiarule bavSvebs,
uaxlesi holivudis filmebis
TiTo dolarad gamyidvelebs, muyaoTi naSeneb barakebs, nacionaluri mZafri sunelebiT gaJRenTil haers cvlis sul raRac
ukanasknel 20 weliwadSi aRmocenebuli udidesi movlili savaWro saxlebi, caTambrjenebi,
msoflioSi wamyvani firmebis
warmomadgenlobebi, RamiT ganaTebuli reklamebi, turistuli
ubnebi da CinelebisaTvis sayvareli „karaoke-barebi“. baridan
gamosulebs cota simarjve gmarTebT, raTa Tvens mier gaCerebul
taqsSi uceb Tqvens Semdeg mosulma Cinelma ar amoyos Tavi.
„sxvisi Svilebi ar kvdebiano“ anu Cveneburad „jer Tavo da
Tavoo“, aris Zveli Cinuri andaza da, rogorc Cans, Cinuri cxovrebis axali filosofia.
fmflehb
qdsft,f
ntktjcrfhb
vlbyfht lfcfdkts
wbv,bhib
da iswavloT „bu iao“ - „ar
minda“. ara mgonia, es uari axevinebdeT maT ukan, ubralod turistis mier warmoTqmuli es
ori Cinuri sityva imdenad axalisebT, rom isic ki aviwydebaT,
romeli saqonlis gasaRebas lamobdnen. verc Jestebis eniT „waxvalT Sors“ CineTis bazrobebze
– Cveneburi ori gaSlili mtevnis nacvlad, isini erTi Sekruli muWiT ganiSneben „10“-ze, „9“
ki muWiTa da moRunuli saCvenebeli TiTiT aRiniSneba da a.S.
isev mcireodeni Cinuris swavla mogiwevT, rac, rogorc aq mcxovrebi ucxoelebi gvajereben,
rTuli sulac ar unda iyos,
miTumetes, roca zmnas arc piris da arc ricxvis niSnebi
gaaCnia. sirTule „mxolod“ am
upiro da urcxvo zmnebis marTebul gamoTqmaSi mdgomareobs.
„ni hao“ - esalmebian erTmaneTs
Cinelebi, es swored is aucilebeli mciredia (raTqmaunda, Wamas anu „CJ“-s Tu ar CavTvliT,
Tanac frTxilad, Torem „jJ“ –
ukve sul sxva ramea) yvela aq
Camosulma rom unda icodes. moxvdebiT CineTSi - aucileblad
estumreT aqaur bazrobebs, sadac adgilzeve damzadebul „dolCe gabanasa“ da „guCis“, „armanisa“ da „kardenis“ nebismier
sagansa Tu samoss SemogTavazeben da Tqveni Sesabamisi zomis
iarliysac oriode wuTSi, Tanac
iqve, fardis ukan migikereben.
saRamovdeba did qalaqSi, Tumca amas verc CamobindebiT da
verc mzis CasvliT SeatyobT, iseve rogorc mzis amosvliT ver
SeigrZnobT pekinSi axali dRis
dabadebas. smogiT dafaruli da
dabinZurebuli qalaqis binadarni
mzes ver xedaven, iseve rogorc
ver xedaven cis silurjes da,
rogorc amboben, Citebs...
didi kedeli –
nageboba, romelic
kosmosidanac ki Cans
siao iao ukve mesamed daadga
qveynis didi saocrebisaken mimaval gzas. kedlis sidiades maSin
SeigrZnob, Seni fexiT rom axval
zedo agvixsnes maspinZlebma, is
ki ver gviTxres, ra mizniT Sendeboda igi.
CineTis kedeli kacis xeliT
vevkb
ve[fcfj7 888=
vinc mTavrobaSi komunistebis
mosvlamde, CineTis damoukideblobisaTvis uricxv brZolebSi
Tavi gaswires. am Zeglis saZirkvelSi pirvelma mao Zedunma moaqcia Turme qva, Tanac mxolod
erTi dRiT adre, vidre CineTi
saxalxo respublikad gamocxaddeboda. amorCeuli adgilmdebareobiT, es 40 metris obeliski,
romlis mSeneblobaSic 10.000
tona qva iqna gamoyenebuli, Zvel
feodalur warsulTan gamomSvidobebis simboloa.
mao Zeduni vaxsene da ageraa
igic - tiananmenis karibWeze oqrosfer CarCoSi Casmuli Tu iqve,
mopirdapire mxares - mavzoleumSi gansvenebuli. vidre misTvis
Tvalis Sevlebis nebas dagrTavdnen, CanTebisa da fotoaparatebis Cabareba da, raRa Tqma unda,
rigSi dgoma mogiwevT. erTxel
Sevcdi da leninis mavzoleumSi
Sevatyuebine Tavi eqskursiamZRol moxuc qalbatons. Cems
ukan, masxovs, axalgazrda kaci
idga: „erTi is adamiani manaxeT
mTeli bavSvoba rom Camimwarao“.
mimixvdebodiT Tavad, es ambavi
90-iani wlebis dasasruls iyo,
aba manamde aseT xalxmraval adgilas ki ara, sakuTar saZinebelSi
ganmartoebulic veravin gabedava msgavsi ramis Tqmas. sityva
gamigrZelda... mokled am jerad
verc didi maos naxvis cdunebam
mZlia da verc Cineli eqskursiamZRolis mosmenis survilma.
aziuri bazrobebis saxeli didadaa ganTqmuli mTels msoflioSi. marTalia vaWrobis xelovnebas nel-nela evropuli qveynebic swavloben, magram daostatebamde, rogorc CineTSi davrwmundi,
jer kidev bevri ukliaT. „aTi
procenti davaklebineo“- uxarodaT amerikelebs. „fass rom getyvian, imis naxevari unda SesTavazoo“ – aswavlidnen erTimeores germanelebi. „gamocdili“
qarTvelebi, ki dasaxelebuli fasis meoTxedad iZenen yvelafers:
„amasac Tavisi teqnika aqvs. Seni
fasi SesTavaze da Sori-axlos
dadeqi, TiTqos ukve wasvlas apireb da aucileblad dagedevnebian“. im SemTxvevisaTvis ki, Tu
dadevnebul gamyidvels veRar
icilebT, Cinuri ori sityva un-
26
rani varT qarTvelebi?
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